Difference between revisions of "Kids & COMPUTERS: What's a parent to do? (1991)"

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<subtitle id='00:00:00'></subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:00'></subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:21'>[Applause] of course the the main thing about</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:25'>good morning a poster of information systems school on behalf of the attitude for the study</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:25'>technologists is that we're good at understanding easy things like science</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:33'>if human knowledge i'd like to walk and you hear this morning when we started when you</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:31'>and electronics and other kinds of engineering and we generally hate</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:39'>have to come in and see more property i started planning this symposium back in december january</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:37'>complicated things reason we're able to</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:45'>i thought it was an interesting idea to have a symposium targeted toward parents on this</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:41'>do our business is because the things we study are pretty easy complicated things</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:49'>topic of kids in computers and i was interested in it because our doing research in the past</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:45'>like ecology and human psychology are</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:54'>about kids some video games that educational software but i didn't have a real personal</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:50'>things we usually try and factor out but in fact a lot of what the next 10 years</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:01'>interest and be a sort of topic of today is special however i'm happy to announce to you</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:00:55'>is going to be about and some of what this last decade has been about is that</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:08'>today but my wife and i are be proud new parents of the baby boy who was one week all day before</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:02'>human interaction human psychology the</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:16'>yesterday and those if you remember what it was like</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:06'>fact that humans don't change anywhere near as fast as the technology does</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:25'>to be the parents of the one week old may may be able to appreciate the chinese fortune</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:11'>there's no real evidence to say that we've changed much in the last 30 or 40</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:31'>cookie message but i got last night the the true story the nightlife is for you</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:16'>thousand years what has changed is our</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:44'>so you know i have a very personal interest in video topic of today session and i hope</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:20'>our ways of representing the world we</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:49'>you do too we've gathered today some of the world's leading experts on the topic of kids</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:24'>got smarter by coming up with better representations but we have to deal with</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:54'>in computers and education and i think they'll have some very interesting things to say for</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:28'>those reputations using the same old brain that we had when we're out hunting</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:59'>you to the [noise] uh let me just a little bit about our sponsoring organization the</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:33'>animals in the forest and as Nesbitt</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:05'>institute for the study if human knowledge is a non profit researching educational organization</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:39'>once said the higher the technology gets the higher the Touch has to go high-tech</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:10'>its headquarters or los altos california i moved to branch off if you're in boston it's</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:44'>high-touch and a lot about what has been happening</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:15'>own interdisciplinary organization but encourages uh m- bringing really perspectives to be their</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:48'>in the last 10 or 15 years of dealing</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:22'>own problems but face our society there's books service series of symposium on hold</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:52'>with computers is that most of the successes that have actually been made have not been technological ones they</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:28'>ecology you know the topics this is the third a series of computer related suppose you know</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:01:58'>the technological ones were predicted very well in a paper by Gordon Moore in</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:34'>it's part of the program on computers were from society uh another symposium will be</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:04'>the late 60s he was he later became a founder of Intel and his paper he was a</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:38'>healthier in boston next month called the road to the future there or or put posters</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:11'>physicist decided to take a particular silicon technology he happened to pick a</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:45'>of advertising it in the back and you're also able to register for if you're if you like</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:17'>really good one MOS and decided to see where it could go if you took it to its</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:49'>this uh they would be about how we show how we should go up our own adapt to the world</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:24'>limits so he sat down and calculated how</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:54'>in the future and what we need to know from or pass we're speakers like
<subtitle id='00:02:28'>many electrons what is the minimal number of electrons you could actually</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:32'>store in an MOS transistor it's about 5,000 I think his</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:39'>answer was that he decided how big that transistor would be and determined that</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:44'>it could be made and then he got interested in what kind of improvement</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:48'>could we make about where we were in the late 60s to get to this minimal MOS</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:55'>transistor they came up with a formulation which is now called Moore's</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:02:59'>law and it was basically that the rate of progress could be a doubling in cost</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:03:06'>performance every couple of years and</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:03:10'>interestingly enough I don't know how many people have followed Moore's law</subtitle>
<subtitle id='00:03:14'>but as of last year Gordon Moore's prediction

Latest revision as of 18:53, 8 December 2017

good morning a poster of information systems school on behalf of the attitude for the study
if human knowledge i'd like to walk and you hear this morning when we started when you
have to come in and see more property i started planning this symposium back in december january
i thought it was an interesting idea to have a symposium targeted toward parents on this
topic of kids in computers and i was interested in it because our doing research in the past
about kids some video games that educational software but i didn't have a real personal
interest and be a sort of topic of today is special however i'm happy to announce to you
today but my wife and i are be proud new parents of the baby boy who was one week all day before
yesterday and those if you remember what it was like
to be the parents of the one week old may may be able to appreciate the chinese fortune
cookie message but i got last night the the true story the nightlife is for you
so you know i have a very personal interest in video topic of today session and i hope
you do too we've gathered today some of the world's leading experts on the topic of kids
in computers and education and i think they'll have some very interesting things to say for
you to the [noise] uh let me just a little bit about our sponsoring organization the
institute for the study if human knowledge is a non profit researching educational organization
its headquarters or los altos california i moved to branch off if you're in boston it's
own interdisciplinary organization but encourages uh m- bringing really perspectives to be their
own problems but face our society there's books service series of symposium on hold
ecology you know the topics this is the third a series of computer related suppose you know
it's part of the program on computers were from society uh another symposium will be
healthier in boston next month called the road to the future there or or put posters
of advertising it in the back and you're also able to register for if you're if you like
this uh they would be about how we show how we should go up our own adapt to the world
in the future and what we need to know from or pass we're speakers like the worst laughing
and all those james berkeley so it's coordinator from b._b._c. edward phobia proposal just
robert ornstein the psychologist video i'm a another couple of announcements uh
today's program is being videotaped and those if you who would like copies of the video
tape should leave your neighbor to dress up the registration just at the back so we can
send you information about it when it's available oh there's also another you know smoke in
the lobby out so hard about being held next wednesday sponsored by the boston computer
society uh massachusetts computer using educators that's called changing tools for changing
schools it will feature children from the boston area schools demonstrating technology
in software that they have built tour develops themselves as part of their educational programs
for that looks to be very interesting as well uh i'd like to be fully proceed any further
i think the conference coordinators who helps you just don't see more organized those symposium
i hope they're around here somewhere 'cause your clean cause lonely and and one big worrisome
spent [noise] excuse me stand up or are they better than no uh edith ackerman say it was
by mistake left off of one of the welcoming remarks presenters but according to the conference
she would you know like to give you some more information about today's events today's programming
at her will come to my youth after my professor at the media lab in him or two of one more
time i would like to well i mean when i come to the educators this she wouldn't future
you know and the speakers that just came together to dates even i even keep in computer what
to do that well i mean you know organizing the same post you was to make sure that we
not just and a message or the kind of how to get your child to be smarter or bachelor
using computer story what's we wanted to do is to provide resources human resources and
that's what i don't know i'm you know each and every one of us to beat up on there then
when how often we do i watch and then that was food or she would not use computers and
what kinds of computers so to put it really yeah i that didn't they become brainstorming
events rather then brainwashing in surprise now you know to to do so we kind of a fair
in the far east are human being it's quite the hours in their approach the experience
you about the use of computers uh quite that even in the field of uh education i think
now that we are guy smoother convictions envision about what the best for our children but yeah
i like the choice of well not just one particular very so voice on the outside in the city that's
the end of software company [noise] where to sponsor did then and to demonstrate some
products that he recommends it by just speakers so here yeah i was not just talk about opposed
to be he uh to to use the computer but also supposed to be to play and to get to see all
the bills that the speakers are going to speak about uh some of the worst teachers favor
eat uh software micro words are gay leaving wide range among other things they don't quote
they motor or things like science he to them we write to cheat he can go right to object
petrie's things like how to make goes for now um we believe that the job again of each
other to discover by today we did a software um and we had some of the speakers to discover
each other because you don't know each of you know he believes me to find that i that
was the next and we buy you know i mean that i watch i swim uh it's great that you i think
that we have the opportunity to get for the state of the speakers that's we chose a one
or two enough before i used to work he more packers e. d. epistemology and learning to
hear that that might get to meet all switch seymour property you know we work together
we just do you use of teachers who are easy boston area you know two years project called
science and now i wouldn't i mean i used to eating so i think teachers are we share their
experience to go for registration there would be a um and for any form of discussion with
the uh um we think that if you extremely experienced teachers from such a paycheck i didn't meet
structures which may and others who and i think it's very useful drawing their voices
to do stuff you could spend sponsors so if they are so many teachers here for information
you have a four day for him to students and so it's just across the road you can always
go there for lunch and eat that i have to be a express everybody foods or during thank
you [noise] [noise] without congratulating he's baby so one to appropriate is a a fortune
cookie macy's not classes for me to like to just start talking by saying that if i mean
you know a strange mental status because i've just had to experience which i went to blame
on the computer because uh two nights ago i was in maine with being in the very secluded
trying to finish some writing and then decided to pull together some stuff that i've been
doing during the summer that i went to share with you and god of letters up in the computer
and started checking some programs are saying what just happened it was four thirty in the
morning or somebody was gonna go so i missed that's not funny practically and uh you know
way that six ethical example of one of the a stereotype images when the has it's what
happens when you put people together with computers well one thing led to another maybe
because of the two of them sleep i had caught trouble and i didn't get away i couldn't believe
maine and so the bass quite like yesterday evening and so i am not having step class
national having driven this call six and i have i was from from maine down to you know
well that puts me in a state of mind which maybe is abnormal side uh on the other uh
i have often decided that i would never do that to be much more organized wouldn't arrive
after they had a a airplane was driving in the call would give us talk talk this because
you can venture say even less what uh i intended to say then i always do it it's good to me
that was that uh this i was contradicting myself one of the things i want to talk about
in fact the issue that's often raised about children becoming you know occasionally
as they say it would get to be involved with computers and what was going to say about
that was the uh when i see this happen i think two things supposed to if the strategy was
obsession really involved with the piano with reading shakespeare was writing poetry uh
you wouldn't use with addicted so it's an interesting question about what we used to
be with addicted we talk about computers than maybe chevy too if it is going to say something
about about that how do you know we're just gonna say she has some interesting sports
about that subject so leave that to comment on another so and that is when people ask
me what i think about their children spending six hours a day to do i intend oh games with
whatever it might be the right thing to say is what is the child telling you you know
was the child doing that and not other things maybe this is a message to you about to something
else being so totally boring in the child's life sucks scoop perhaps uh view that so it
seems to me that looking at that sort of involvement too ripe response is you know to say that
just saying something about the computer video game or whatever it is it saying something
about your child to about children engine uh people in general you know culture perhaps
uh so applying that to myself i think that to my initial stitches again but i mean myself
as i drove down to one school getting into the situation of you know driving in the chaotic
state having driven are nice and not even worth property dressed but i'm not a a business
school but what if it might be uh i started saying to myself well maybe that's what i
really want to maybe that's really watched this business oh what the computer is all
about [noise] um [noise] and i try to elaborate that as a joke to italy about some of the
things that i've been doing recently with some children on the computer but i'd i'd
say something you know sort of stuff and then i was down in the program i mean to you know
one well to me remarks and shoot making a a talk about computers in children group settings
welcoming remarks for a moment and the reason why they should be kept in i would like to
eat is excellent said about making the same brainstorming north just listening to the
beach is and i guess if i'd never sort of this before but see how many people came here
and hearing the remark about the computer use in education kind of organization it strikes
me that maybe it would be very interesting to have a i you know some sort of continuation
all of this getting together after after to die and then some of people who uh prison
share who appearance and maybe they children too and maybe some of us much like to stay
in touch and continue of uh of the time i was thinking of maybe meetings from time to
time i was also thinking of fading up and then they try to communication that idea and
you know maybe a various times the beach and stroke about it if if the end of the day uh
you'd like to leave you names in the dresses if you interested in doing anything like that
please do find some way to leave them somewhere okay two computers in children [noise] um
[noise] i i feel are as feel all quit just talking to a group of people i don't know
i see a lot of places there you are what you saying what you do uh since my my my whole
approach to education is don't give lectures and what's wrong with school this is the teacher
stands up in front of study children and to accept them and that's not the way to live
under three hundred people in talking at them that some of the wages so it makes me feel
that you know something's wrong how if i don't know how to get around it except isn't ready
propose doing something about getting getting closer together so i'd like to excuse myself
if i make assumptions about some if you set up some of you know to others [noise] one
of the assumptions that people often make even dealing with with you think about children
in computers is well quoted software what computer what activity for that much of a
particular of course is nothing wrong with that and i don't want to discourage that question
but i'd like to focus also some other question that uh i think perhaps oh just as important
maybe in the long run more important than the two kinds of other questions and i'd like
to focus on what it is which is the content of a lot of summer activity apart from trying
to recruit which was working with some children and they pay room on the idea that it would
be nice to have with computers and what you know the people miss is i an opportunity to
do something together with the kids get is as opposed to get the soft food you know to
the computer the kid can go to the computer and run which is great uh maybe it might be
another you know the view of it is would would be interesting if you and the kids the patterns
and the kid could with together oh have projects together around the computer with the computer
uh doing things oh whatever they might be uh so uh that's the perspective that had like
two two two and if i'm going to show you i'll give you a little people of what i was trying
to do trying to design to to make it easy for that to my mother was uh something that
i i see is frequently the case for the all the supplies to you and they don't go to people
i know have a computer at home they have small children who want to use the computer if they
very small children the children are three the children do use the word to use the computer
he's frustrated but the parents also frustrated as not being able to find some kind of more
constructive you know unfolding way of uh doing something with it and i think they're
a lot of such people around you who who have computers getting to be comfortable with uses
it might even be x. two in one way or the aspect of of using computers that have not
been able to find the way of sharing this with children or various ages anyone here
you know i think it's i think it's pretty widespread what i was trying to do father
who was starting with with logo uh um and working with kids and trying to see what tools
we should add to logo to make it easier for the kid to be able to work together to produce
a i produce something examples i just needed in the in the cases i work at i was founded
up some people who are interested in one case the kids was to try and was very interested
in everything to do with me anything involving trains is fascinating for this for this job
so a natural thing to do would be to sit down and make some programs make some something
here that uh maybe starting from something that already exist in this case is evolved
into starting with a general format of of the typical sort of mario types nintendo game
with something moves along in the various action in the very simplified phone but it
was going to involve frying with some simple to the show the parent to develop ideas for
trying to you i i i've i of of of one of these games that would be to buy them and could
develop overtime starting with very simple into more complicated another example was
more socially oriented this will start the older child who was very much involved with
concerned about ecological matters and president you conservation so on and they got involved
in developing some software that would make demonstrations they can be used show to other
people to teaches neighbors to bring out issues about uh you know about them and
it should be college in conservation that's with of comes to the child and the two other
people around them so they're developing the stuff they using the computer to take it still
just adding extra dimension to an interest they were ready and i think this is very different
perspective from thinking of wealth which which will be most amusing for the kid almost
constructive developmental mentally or whatever it might be so that's one perspective that
goes young saying what's good for the kid it's a much good for my relationship with
the kid for our relationships with other people as fix to use the other is related to scoop
anticipating as such so 'cause i try to make about the subject to the conclusion already
come to is that people the people who have computers at interested enough to develop
ideas around them and uses of them and get the kids involved i think that such people
are going to be one of the major uh driving force in changing school and i don't just
mean changing the way that computers are used in school i mean changing scoot so and so
the other perspective is looking beyond what you might do today or tomorrow with the computer
would your kid might do but thinking uh all kinds of activities and ways of thinking about
it in the u._s. involvement which show would explore ideas you focused or kind of a few
of the learning environment that's why i just that's why i just say so in that kind of perspective
i'd like to look the way i'm thinking these days about computers and children on three
different time to speak to one time perspective is what you can do now go tomorrow next week
fee other time perspective way down looking into a future that might be extremely different
from anything that you can possibly do now and then in between is trojan horse idea there
just what can we do a into media that came to bring about that for the state of affairs
i do think that if i miss we give away to set amount of you know if you thinking although
it might have a romantic flavor in itself is we do a certain amount of that we can to
make decisions about what's the important thing to do today [noise] and i think is particularly
applies to what's happening in schools where people are so preoccupied and most of the
research community of most jokingly i think in some ways and everybody's concerned about
what effect putting these computers in the scooter how these kids to spare do arithmetic
or what if it's not be [noise] you know then just haven't do you refer to use and okay
you go if if that's the computers don't make the significance difference anyway and concentrating
on that aspect of it and just to make a you know the whole research community in computers
in education i instrument of conservatism of these days moscow and other places i use
that kind of political job in an instrument of reaction rather than instrument off of
ripple jewish and i find this happening to myself i find that to say about the late seventies
early eighties when they were no computers in schools except in occasional exciting romantic
projects my ideas when i talked about computers are sort of mystic scale of us in tied to
a fundamental critique of education as practiced in school and i do think i thought then and
i think now that computers in themselves don't do anything that i don't be inanimate objects
but they oh instruments which who would you create context within for each radical change
an education brought about however when computers started creeping into schools the pressure
all the best interested in computers and since and education the pressure to find things
to do with them that can be taken up by the school today and next week or next year if
you said right that instead of that out for two taken away from the thinking envision
beecham subway things might go and they become focused on the east scoot administrations
in the school you know the school the education establishment find reasonable in the in the
in the short run [noise] [noise] [noise] i think that would be in the school we see this
show if in the early eighties when ever i assume i feel computers in schools they were
brought stay by vision of each each of the typical example of a computer in the school
was huge commit just classroom is be is if you've been to well they might be the teachers
to a black board but the back of the room tested around two two computers are a bunch
of kids totally ignoring what's happening up there and involved with crazy projects
some wonderful project using the computers to express gauge out of schools chopping off
of off subject matters and fast pair of an example of that one out of that i like pretty
much because if i can say two minutes was happened you know even new york screwed you
know do you know you know it's about two children would be the same class since first grade
that wouldn't in fourth grade but they'd hardly ever talked to one another and then i'll be
able to talk to another because they have such totally different interests and hitting
the mets was off the crafts and who's interested in science fiction you know she sort of themselves
on just a shame to be interested in music movement you know how you dress very different
things and they didn't talk to one another very much when the computer it was no soft
within those days this teacher programming logo during the previous some and she brought
these two computers along you instantly math was a child you instantly that he was going
to visit his thing he was going to be the soup a superstar at the computer and in fact
very quickly he'd take mastered the technicalities of it but it's so happened that one of the
kinds of programming activities that took on in this class was creating visual special
effects on the screen all sorts of visual effects some animation stories with the narrative
some just abstract things this was it was the movie was young many people as physical
images and they try to make that kind of exciting visual effects the mets was all that we could
do smoke take to go things his programs to not to all the news and i was of admiration
that some i just [noise] and one day watching the dance so i do advance in the in the in
the in the in the playground and ideas and this idea they had to to getting together
and putting together the when the sense of movement dromon right with the others uh easy
mass three of the mathematical aspects of programming and they was they begin to with
together in the projects it went on for a long time to make the best computer poorly
overfield objects moving flying around in spy exposure computers for you should get
the they made some very wonderful thing and this was around the computer divide that breaks
in our culture into fragments was being crossed and i see that as an example of this computer
going against the basic epistemology and sociology of the scoop which reinforces these fragmentation
of knowledge and intellectual stuff that in the scoop mathematics is one thing and dance
and music and art is another thing and for the intellectually inferior more of a this
computer in the classroom in those two kids made a situation fed broke down that showed
i mean if you break it down but if it pointed to the direction of break down of the of of
of this i think extremely finishes a separation fragmentation of of you know what age that
exist in many for me to start really rooted you know how society you know how to use reinforced
by school it was being broken down and i think you get into all the example stuff so in the
early days of my computers in schools teachers who who's in the computer the opportunity
to have i guess pay for that or something that always try to do which is to visit his
regime of reinforcing fragmentation rather to try to bring together in the more the speedway
the excitement of development off off of a [noise] she she i think they're just as many
did even more vision reach each is now the new with then it's not that that has disappeared
but the predominant presence of computers in school has shifted to something else that
by the middle of the day page of the eighties computers in schools became big business it's
got taken over by the school administration by city school department state school diploma
speak companies and quickly we begin to see a totally different from them and then the
way the computer is pulled out of the classroom and pulled out of that sort of use and put
it in a special room with the specialized teacher with the special curriculum and when
this happened i mean inside the context individual kids and she just can still do wonderful things
but if you see the train inherent the nature of school to take it out of the learning environment
fragmented so it becomes one most subjects apart from the rest of the of of of the children
so [noise] so i think what has to see what's happening in schools as i see it as a struggle
in political sociological too it's not the question of you know how to use the computer
a lot of people from schools don't know how to use them i think that's in the states you
know how to use them very well the question is who is using it for for those visually
teachers knew how to use the computer maybe you could still do you get to know how to
use the computer school establishment switch consciously or or unconsciously has the deep
sea vested interest and identification with these traditional ways of thinking is using
it very well it's purposes and one shouldn't mistake uh the fact that somebody is using
it for another purpose you shouldn't confuse that's what they don't know how to use it
and we should do more research so i want to find out the broadway abusing it [noise] well
that was my sister and it's just come back to this idea that if that was all you those
people who see feed vision we role of educational change and want to see the computer as the
kind of trojan horse was an instrument they can be used to be coverage that for traffic
it is i need to have the division of where we go away and i think can be influenced the
decision making in the thinking that's happening inside the school structures by supporting
those visually teaches rather as they get as opposed to the establishment fe now so
it's not that perspective i think one wants to look at the computer in longer right you've
said you know two little prick stories and show you peace videotape program maybe philly
in philly this concept but nothing i didn't want to go at aged for girl who knew that
i grew up in africa say to me how to dress sleep [noise] and i said what you know she's
if they've got such long they waited they put they next [noise] well you know there's
a shitty this try to thought about it just you you know the conversation said well you
know a a puppy last a when he's keeps and so does she 'cause i was in the draft she
was from uh another kid said well maybe it's fun just treat it as a another once it what
it's like a sleep stand you know the big ways it had to go like history things fit it in
with a lot of exposure about a fantasy about how the draft draft sleeps and that was pretty
excited i i didn't know how to dress left so i when i try to do in the encyclopedias
fiji proud to all these books and i've browsed around where i didn't find out how to dress
after i found a very interesting things about giraffes and some things about other things
in this browsing and i didn't have enough with the without have mentioned the story
each have a test of contact on the email to various people submit that eventually brought
back from four or five different people including pretty decent as careful contribute organizations
beating who to finish of holding a direct of resume anyway we found out but if you see
foo foo networking we could explode this activity you know they point to emphasize the fact
that i imagine if i had never known address people i would not be any support of for the
what was extremely interesting exciting for me was that she was exploring trying to find
out and this is floyd intellectual lots and lots of of an adult is about sports makes
things exciting thinking [noise] we have way use like the kind of electronic mail also
stuff like that which enables has to explode distant issues like draft in another
this is not so different from four children do in relation to the more immediate children
from the time they they they everything in the immediate immediate or whatever they
can see they grab it takes concentrate on some aspects of it like put an object and
somehow to contain and take it out and put it in the all the time it is is the
sort of my close relationship between the object and the and the and the child really
explore this all the way i think some of the way the difference takes just the way animals
responded what if they're in the immediate is explode you know very associates persistence
constructive kind of kind of way and i think you seeing him that actually the mechanisms
how to for which really into the actual growth have two children but when it comes with the
just the kind of exploration the kind of happened there is it still exploration in fantasy in
conversation with and the dog fed physics just didn't the shift in balance between what's
you know and what's out to a shift in balance between what field depending on which dependent
on the others the adult saw often motivated or don't have the time and i think that just
to get this data is any particular aspect in the development of of of of children if
they can change i think we did it was something very fun to go out i just you there's obviously
put fad sometime in the future but sometime in the future vitro i would also be able to
explore all this issue of draft better than i could because electronic encyclopedias did
you live so if if you use more intelligent encyclopedias would be better than the encyclopedia
britannica which is limited in size because if it became ten times as big i would have
no she'll space i wouldn't be too expensive it be to come to some to use cross reference
is so hard just thing for example of the fact that they didn't mind factor peter pretending
exactly the piece of information to needed but how do i find things i mean alphabetical
order which way off or do you think are very useful in some way like you can find with
addiction very very quickly if you know how to spanish but i think if you want to find
out having the english would say all that and it easy [noise] how do you find in the
dictionary you might have to reach without addiction or do a lot of gas with the dictionary
isn't as for that but if it's if it's an addiction addiction very little program so they can
put you scan through it easy i think we can in that you quit and the sure you'll just
this just from the immediate well they can be federally explodes to the distance which
now i watch that will be that the shift and that is you're going to happen but i notice
a couple of things about festival it's going to happen easily it won't happen easily because
you know running away and try to get database about draft doesn't solve this problem because
the whole point is that true rafi if he was just one of an infinite number of questions
i could've applied to destroy a so it's going to need a tremendous before oh what if a child
thinks about has a chance of guilt leading to somewhere in the sort of sort of context
so if it isn't something that we can think about tomorrow but it's something that is
an example i i belong to him perspective [noise] they can do you have if uh i also think that
it's problematic it's not obvious that this is a good thing to do it's not obvious that
uh what happened to the child of having to resort to fantasy drugs and the fact isn't
the best thing it's not obvious that the dependence on adult isn't part of the development of
relationship between between the the children the people in the important part of personal
development so it's it's not obvious that how this shifts takes place is how it should
have what's important what's what's wrong about it and how to think about it is not
obvious but i think what is the obvious is that it's important especially dealing with
deep issues they're into deep issue that is in the morning for the job better to add to
amount to i used to say activity anyway in the days of electronic calculators so a very
small example thing i mean what if maybe that's when we think of the future we can think all
very different of computers paying a mental rolled in the lives of children and that's
what we should be focusing needs a lot of mean imagination we did in the way to go but
i think that that's where i should be in the into media i just want to take the rest of
my few minutes to give you some exam show you a videotape which shows the result of
collaboration between usage group and they go company over the last four or five years
they go storm u._s. supported research out a well if they can on this video how does
that half of this video tape was made by mitchell resonate who i think you'll see you know what
i see in this in this piece of video [noise] some little thing objects made out of an extended
lego you basically go materials what's being added to the music is computer in one form
or enough so that they can behave i envy what i don't like to emphasize is uh just focused
to attention on the fact that making these object into fitness and just take the call
is taking all the jews engineering since it's fantasy world you know if you just say you
have to have answers to has computing animals you know so that they had these programs to
this one just to get in touch us [noise] you know i think it had a thing and so i made
it with a change of it as piece of behavior i think it should be changing lie so she's
the point about the fantasy imagination creating something out
you might you know riding but you using technical usually mathematics usually engineering ideas
that oh usually you know the problems of graduate student a professional scientists and engineers
rather then she'll and if there's a need to take out of uh uh the idea of
ideas from with the teaching of math in may so engineering
i think as being taken the particular homes for all sorts of reason that the context of
the technological until very recently was such that they would get it you know that
are small child with that kind of not with just technology that can be method by children
are just not age becomes something that can be can be used and that just from the i think
the knowledge invention get away and you had to being tested on us which applies to being
shot stop divided just subjects is math was riding and chopped up into grade levels i
think all these as fake teaching is the technical education education go x. ought to speak
with the circumstance that you know society for taking logical and all sorts of reasons
i children we're letting without being abused and what i see as she knew elements protein
by the technology is not using the technology to make machines in just super teaches in
the old but changing the relationship you know they're not age become something that
had beach freidy explore infection p._d._a. image and used as in creating a object to
this sort of computer programs also sort of stuff so [noise] i think that enough initially
my computer program uh but i just too scared to get another technology [noise] [noise]
[noise] [noise] [noise] [noise] you know go for the program for the thing is just a repeat
and just come and just which is built into programming language enables the fifth trying
to fit you draw the tried and then you said you didn't motion well the child so this just
found it fascinating making trying to move but after a while well something it by accident
an animal you know and put this rabbit so the rabbit was there and out from under inspired
by nintendo game the child if i press the button the rabbit jump and that was almost
as simple a program to russia in just a few lines again press the button fix the mouse
and the and they and and they and and to sing job so that was fun for a while the
train would come and you're jump over the train then this today to adding onto getting
i was real peace one inch two different directions one was the idea well maybe if it landed on
the trial you know it should just go for the wrong and that was a little more difficult
and probably the four five year old child would not of manage that uh at the age of
of of development but with the pet easily do that and maybe would be appropriate to
uh this could be with the other programming language that would be be easily done so that
happened but in order to do that you have two jobs to jump at the riots and then this
was the child's idea believe that i did see there's trees in the background [noise] that
in order to judge the raw distance between the just try and then the and the rabbit to
make the jump some kind of a difference was ministry and just finding the trees there
was a spontaneous she came from the child as if we have something there then we could
say it's a distance of the tree was wasn't the distance of the tree and just chow didn't
have the language just say one portion of the distance of the tree but fairly that idea
was in the child's mind was used to to decide to put into place about intermixing jumpsuit
would lead on the train and the other direction is which is so when it was the vision of it
is on the teacher huh what the other direction what's what if you message and to try and
jump bumps into the rabbit if something were to happen and you had those noises and the
rabbit flew into the scott each of these little pieces was very simple addition of just to
repeat a lot of times like repeat a lot of food in the goes that's way better for the
fried food well and then it goes out and then after then add to that to feed allowed to
go down so these little programs the to the elaboration of this game and that's i think
of very obvious empowerment of this child as getting us and so i was being able to to
take notice any of the computer better of those video gave us another use those images
all of that of commercially made games are now approach skated by the child was tremendous
engagement enforced because to try to see them so off and on on other people screens
and becoming abusive rather than just a few of the same things because the child into
new relationship with their knowledge lucy objects with with the child's sales stuff
on there is maybe the most important thing that one sees with these children [noise]
another way of describing what school does two children in financial arising than treating
them like children so to speak now oh well i'm sort of the cast of time with it but i
think children should be treated like children but i think it when i was exploding about
how the draft slept i was doing the child and being treated like children in that since
we should all be treated like shit scoot treats and like children and i in in in the same
switch children off soon to be people who don't have good ideas who's knowledge is limited
who have to be rather than exploding discovering creating position you know what age i think
that's the ships that you can bring around about we have to i see sitting outside vision
as the most important [noise] maybe the most important act in the world all the other things
like saving the environment the panic from from you ways of thinking that depends
into children with two different relationships you know what age difference vision of themselves
so stuff [noise] [noise] some people think it's an acquired taste like a pickle hearing
for breakfast some people think it's about problems all the some people think says
a god given talent that if you don't have it you don't do it but for me i i think all
those are absolutely you know that another way of looking at it is that we're we're thinking
all the time the fun that we do have in life regardless of how it's organized uh comes
from thinking when we stop thinking where dad and the kinds of thinking that we like
to call thinking uh is as much of skill or something we can learn how to do as much as
it is uh something that we come by and in mysterious ways to talk to parents about children
computers it was kind of a kind of complex because i don't know like with the exception
of a few small pieces of software that you can you can buy for your computers at home
i don't know if anything that's really good in the sense of being a share rubble object
between parents and children that really uh really exist on computers today like he more
to it very well one he said he was up in maine trying to figure out a new way to allow parents
and children to have shared experiences about computing and uh uh i've spent the last twenty
five or so years of my life trying to figure that out as well back seymour's to blame for
my uh career you have a place [noise] um i've actually had designed in early personal computer
in the uh in the sixties and uh didn't work very well huh sociological i happen to be
technically pretty good a lot of things that we have a personal computers today but in
fact the uh most of the people we tried it on except for computer science graduate student
hated it and of course computer science graduate students are the worst fear try computers
on because they're in the middle of of puberty rite of passage proving that they can memorize
five hundred stupid commands of of poorly designed system that's why they're like you
know so much i was one of those graduate student a graduate student before unix came along
so i got spirit that particular right of passage but the same year i decided that this early
personal computer that worked on was not going to make it out of the community which i decided
i first visited a seymour pafford cynthia solomon uh out here and i think was bridge
school in lexington nineteen sixty eight and that visit completely change my way of thinking
about computing and what it was about the in the sixties we saw of personal computing
those of us were thinking about it all we thought of personal computing as something
like going from the real world which is the big mainframe own by institutions to sort
of the henry ford phase of everybody having their own car and there's this notion of the
computer as vehicle uh the first people who are working with hyper media for doing it
back in the sixties and there's a travelling through an dimensional space was very big
a metaphor that we're all using what i saw seymour's work with logo and children vehicular
metaphor didn't survive that day i mean survivor that day because we don't put children in
cars when they're uh eight years old we actually wait until they're really dangerous around
eight bucks acquitaine while i was doing whatever the computer was now he was doing it with
children who were eight nine ten years old and the thing i came away from that because
it was just the computer is something like material or something like paper it's one
of the media of our civilization the way we make markings and represent things and so
forth and the thing about media is that you don't withhold it from kids and so we're in
high school very famous nation at risk report uh which was generally really well written
except for us recommendations very good he asked the uh part of taking american education
to to half i i like the uh the opening part which said before in power wanted to do the
u._s. and they could hardly pick the better way than to arrange at our school should be
in the states the theory and very nice statement but then when they got around to recommending
things it was pretty much the same old stuff a little streamlined the recommendation about
computers uh was quickly interesting they said it's absolutely imperative that every
child i have an experience with computers uh one semester in their senior year in high
school i think of that is the drivers added syria goes right along with vehicular notion
but anyway back in sixty eight when i saw a more stuff i thought uh we can at this isn't
what it is about of some sort of media and the thing about media escape the whole thing
about media is that we don't we hold it from shoulder whatever it is we're trying to do
with it and it may be completely random in some cases i may be very pointed maybe two
point or another parent trying to teach their kids to read it age too or something like
that the one thing we don't do it is with hold it from the children we want to be around
to as an artist back in the world part of the world of the trial comes about again and
we want the child to have experience with it and on with that new metaphor uh first
thing i did was to make a cardboard model back in nineteen sixty eight about what a
computer for children uh could look like it i couldn't be one of the thing my own company's
computer but these are big funky things that you can go where the kid is the kid has to
come to them and kids are mobile huh you have to be somebody i can carry around we love
this thing up with what how to see how have you could make it before person with not carried
around we realized that uh port ability is not a point five her nations per block the
portability means you can carry something else to say you can't have everything as important
as a new things happen including the uh designed for macintosh way of communicating 'cause
of course the most important thing about the computer it's not so much whether it's portable
uh that helps with the most important thing is whether it into some sort of recognizable
minute beautiful space for the user if another word to have to be an object that can be read
and written in order for to have something to do with media 'cause media's about getting
messages that other people say and do you do that by having a somewhat of an overlap
between what the author is trying to do and what the author thinks you're able to do and
they about him out of out over laugh uh is the basis for being able to read are starting
to read something in some communication whether to painting or whether it's a book and even
more importantly this goes along very strongly with things to see more and i have agreed
on for years and years and that is things really get interesting and more importantly
the concept of literacy doesn't happen if you can only read if you can only except from
others literacy real learning and everything happens when uh you can put your own ideas
into the thoughts dream in the print media i mean she should be able to write writing
is to me the act up by which we should measure literacy a a studies going around today that
show that we have twenty three million or twenty eight million or fifty three million
depending on who's doing the measuring uh people who are functionally literate what
they mean by that are people who can't read uh ingredients on bottle signs and so forth
i can't read and that is the tragedy but to me the bigger tragedy isn't enough you know
country of two hundred and fifty million people we maybe have two hundred million you can
write so for my standards of literacy were three quarters or worse illiterate because
we can't express their own ideas kind of very strong way and when you have a computer as
a new medium important thing about it is yes we must be able to deal with the offerings
of other people because that's how we add multiple points of view and her life that's
how we get a different possibilities we've never think of enjoyed it's all the benefits
that we have from book except the stuff is dynamic now and we can uh fit with it but
more importantly the tools through which the ideas are transit also have to be reflective
in the sense that we have to uh be able to make things and the hardest thing to do over
the last twenty years or so has not been to design firm user interface like macintosh
which a house about nine thousand uh books of the future if you will find thousand applications
published in the in the way that it's fairly easy for people to deal with and there's the
consistency between them the loud people haven't learned one to know about seventy percent
of the next one if i haven't seen before all those are the kinds of things that you should
be doing when you're a dealing with the media and that is trying to publish the ideas of
others but in twenty years it's been almost impossible i i should say it has been impossible
to come up with the really good uh writing tool to construction tool logo was one of
the first that made a difference smallpox stuff we did as iraq made the difference the
hypercard answer because it's on the macintosh maybe stella some other uh systems run there
make a difference for certain population but none of the two of us the construction media
has actually gotten above the threshold i think where people can be come really literate
without becoming the equivalent of professional life to the idea of writing in our culture
is they should be able to write without having to become a professional rider the writing
or something you do as a non professional and in fact i think everybody here realizes
that back before fifteen hundred or so uh there was no concept of literacy or illiteracy
just as in our society today we have for health health percy that's because of positions are
professionals and we expect them to do their job and we don't have to deal with their own
you know maybe ten years from now the different uh they'll be mad measurement the says that
you know twenty three million americans are ill health they can't take care of your
basic uh bodily functions and they wait until something goes wrong with them before they
go thinking professional to do what we want something else our society needs are they
not professional to be able to do a reasonable covering of much of the things that are professionals
too you don't feel that it's all that a person who uh works all day you know insurance for
more person who goes to school as an eight year old also can play baseball funny professionals
but we do it too is part of our amateur thing a hundred years ago it was not unusual for
people to right much more than i did because i communicated using letters rather on the
telephone and so this whole notion of what i mean they have a computer in our society
means casual used reading and writing something that you have to do only for important thing
i think about paper you can do trivial things like one of our biggest breakthroughs on this
was taking the attitude of what kind of computer would just have to be so you would do something
so trivial as to put your a grocery list on it and be willing to take the computer into
the market and back out again with regret bags of groceries now if it wasn't astray
obviously a computer like that should not have an aunt off which just as an example
are important like watches the don't have an aunt off switch 'cause we don't want like
knowing the time isn't such a big shouldn't be a big deal in our society after hundreds
of years of having a boxer so so we just make them without on off which is uh the first
uh over actually tried watching had allergies this place to consume so much power that uh
they would be oh until you have the little but not to see what time it was nothing laugh
so since so well they realize that they have to have something so they're finding out the
time was a casual thing for the same thing as saying things through now what is the thinking
stuff come in well i have a couple of a couple of little story a couple years ago i was having
lunch with my radio math uh receive the nobel prize or either inventing or discovering quirks
depending on your series of how science uh and uh he's very funny guy we're talking about
education and so forth and uh he said you know education and the twentieth century of
like being taken to the world's greatest restaurant and being forced to just the menu i
met a whole bunch of things by that i think some of them are obvious part of it is that
uh we are increasingly a society that deals with our ideas by representing the various
ways that's very important represent patients are the things that we can right now so when
we read some representation of an idea a difficult for usually to transmit that representation
of the idea back into the visceral experiences with the people had when they had the idea
that they were that one once removed uh whether we like it or not worse than that so the society
encourages us to feel that we're have done our job we can recognize that we're saying
these ideas before multiple choice pass all about television is all about recognition
television is very happy if you can recognize this product or that after uh it doesn't require
require north really set up for anything they because they take awhile to evolve a friend
of mine once said about public television which is supposed to be the savior television
news you know public television is the butterfly lodging in roach motel i particularly like
that because not only does it espresso gap between public television and commercial television
but it also espresso similarity because both the butterfly and the rocher insects in other
words they're actually of the same species making television better it's not like going
to help things at all because of the isn't conducive to the most of saw that our society
is actually build up and things of the some of them just the other the other so i like
to tell you something i know couldn't happen in an intelligent organizing rational place
like massachusetts i was born here but i live in los angeles now where anything can happen
and i imagine that in a crazy place like california that the parents perhaps from watching too
much m._t._v. the side of the children would not make it in life unless they became a musician
by the time like a high school of course they'd seen in the paper comparison of the united
states children as musicians compared to the japanese and the koreans and of course we
came out eight out of twelve or something like that uh doing very badly so i start beating
on the state legislature saying our children are gonna fail in life unless they become
musicians courses state legislature will not listen to them until they collection came
along and then they announce with the flow alright what we're gonna do is we're gonna
put a piano and every classroom now unfortunately we don't have enough money to hire any musician
to teachers so what we're gonna do if we're gonna take the existing teachers and give them two week refresher course in the summertime and actually solve the problem and we get
all imagine intelligent well many teachers in fifth grade i haven't gone through the
refresher course trying to figure out what they're going to do when school starts one
says to the other you know there was the sci major scale thing they taught us we show the
kids that some of the kids would be better at it because of the worst out of that would give us a nice distribution for getting him so it was what teachers do when they don't
know what to do is they come up with behavioral objective and the problem with the scenario
is that music never gets in the classroom because any musician will tell you the music
is not in the piano it's not in the piano and in fact a survey about ten years ago when
they were thinking about getting into the keyboard business show to startling facts
from the american population that is that a large number over ninety percent of people
under the age of fifty would love to do more about music which they have done more would
like to do more and the other interesting fact came out of the survey was at nine out
of ten people who had taken piano as children were turned of life or music for the rest
of your life you know why because the music is not in the piano you can't apply the kids
to the piano and have something happen the very best the piano can be isn't amplifier
like all technology for impulses or inside the learner if you don't develop a musical
involved then you're not going to get anything but mechanical playing bass and the kids that
are sensible reject the rejected out of hand is not having anything to do with their their
life and that was exactly what happened the reason that happens is because most of our
technology has both this amplifying way of looking at things and it also has a prosthetic
way of looking effects the piano for music can take a musical involved with that you
have and you can express them directly like ones that involve multiple voices working
together as a single person to experience that and to compose those things the wonderful
instruments i play it myself but uh for many people what technology one's of things are
kind of prosthetic put a prosthetic whim over healthy one of the healthy one oh after because
one of the main messages that nature gives us over and over again both for our muscles
and for a minute is use it or lose it so what happens with thinking eh the kinds of thinking
that we do on the kinds of thinking that kids see their parents do off and they kind of
the kind of thinking that they do if i don't understand the possibilities if they don't
experience uh things are field or hitting home runs they have understanding of what
can be done with the baseball they don't experience somebody uh like horror was playing the piano
they have very little sense of what the range of expression as possible on the thing if
i don't see people thinking around them and i think we can all that that they don't see
a lot of that a a spectator sport you can put on television the worst thing you can
never do an interview show on television is say let me think about that from into the
they're the television is all about being able to be spontaneous and recognize things
it's not about the same thought most kids see parents come home tired from work off
and both parents are from work the parents come in next themselves to drink in turn on
the television and that becomes part of what the environment is that the child uh works
from south of what to do with media what what do you do with the piano suppose you want
your child to be a musician always like the child to have every chance to choose to learn
to be a musician what do you do you put the piano there but i think it's good to have
the piano around i think it's good for the kids to be able to count on it you know maybe
try if you're things out but you really want your child a musician what you do is just
saying with your child because singing is what it's all about i go to the chamber music
kampfer dealt each summer and basically what they tell us we've summer is you know if you
think the music inside express itself as you play at most musicians who instrumentalist
to play don't singing music inside because er used to letting the instrument do it for
them when you do that you wind up with stuff that's fairly mechanical 'cause that's where
they actually can do all the phrasing and stuff the turns noises into beauty that same
thing as through with with children do you want children to learn how to read read with
your children drug children to thank you gotta think with your children and the important
thing about thinking is the important parts of it to me like with music or the things
that go on and here we have things are out here is the problem with computers and video
games and um other artifacts we've made it so there's a tendency to external wise 'cause
of the ribs with television because television so visual it actually removed from uh some
of the necessity for imagining things in our own my radio doesn't have that problem folks
don't have that problem like forced us to create images of what's happening in our in
our mind uh when we don't have something going on in our mind we're not learning how to build
images and mine are mine it's much difficult more difficult for us to think about things
because we have to try out things we have to polite thing the other words we have to
construct things in order to do much thinking about it and mature by media today remove
the necessity for construction thing going in the back is great you can learn it quickly
generally a good idea but uh i've discovered you know i used to macintosh in the school
that if we want the children to actually sit down i think about something i've a newspaper
that i carry and when i talk to the child but i do like put the newspaper over the screen
and also the child starts acting very differently then uh when the screen is there 'cause the
back of all about which i do that and what you should do next and you can try things
out and so forth all those things are very useful but in fact there are certain ways
of thinking about things that are not about what should i do that they have to do about
what should i do they have to do was go they have to do with what am i gonna do down the
road of it rather than what am i gonna do right now so it's interesting uh continue
um between what musicians called improvisation and composition cannot musicians they seem
very similar somebody is coming up with music that hasn't been heard before but to musician
improvisation and composition could hardly be more uh more different the reason is that
when you were improvising your major goals or not to drop me and you see mostly type
things together as to what you wind up doing is using lots of of material uh whenever you
can't think of anything else in the few little cycle just thinking you have going for you
you're trying to see we're going on with the larger structure oughta when you're composing
you're doing a completely different set of spot action composing is largely about what
other kinds of things that i can do with an idea and the idea of the state is the beginning
of the things is often constructed to allow it so many different things to be done to
it as possible in the middle so i think some of the music or often compose from the middle
out from the possibilities back to back to the beginning and towards towards the end
and they've got two different ways of doing things all these are useful just as if you
had it was useful but we have to realize that just as a visual feels caused this to think
about things and one way and then those of the piano causes to think about pitch in the
way that is very different from almost any other instrument and our own voice we have
to learn how to get around those limitations if we know that their limitations that whenever
we start using the computer we have to have some sense i think of what we're trying to
use it for the if the parent is interested in having more than the social experience
with the child i have nothing against just the purely social experience because i think
it's the best thing for kids to do is to try and model themselves against what their what
their parents are doing for the parents are interested in going for the children in the
hopes of children will get interested in reading that i think the parents are people who are
starting to have ideas about the kind of thinking the kinds of information that their like their
children to deal with so um what is that like to do here is um how many people here in the
audience can add single digit numbers that's that's pretty uh pretty tentative but see
i like i like the volunteer or somebody who thinks they can do it reason we well i'm not going to tax a but there's gotta be some tech easier you come up here that i like somebody
who feels very anxious about uh even adding single who any mass here yes please come up
right so we have a person who's fairly confident and we have a person who think she might be
a massive all that you have to get both just stand right here first second or so you're
the numbers from one to nine you can memorize okay i
like you to stand here like you come with me to have to try yours again we're going
to do is pick number's one of the time from here um until you can pick three or she can
pick three that out of the fifty okay and and start anywhere that you like in the in
to help a little bit i'm gonna make little marks on here so we'll we'll remember the
ones that have been use a phone having confusion on that that okay okay so much you start first
what number would you pick first okay mark okay what number to pick pick one
to as fifty seven okay
okay so she picks seven five and three and she was a long oh more than i make different
marxist time okay want your shoes first okay for ya you remember you know you have
nine five
okay so i i think i'm making my point here uh let me show you what's going on she's the
math my friend years working with this representation she's working with this one you know it's
as the magic square pathway adds up to fifteen and what do you think she's what game do you
think she's playing effects oh thank you if you teach your kids this they'll try it on
every adult within range because the question is is the person who's using this cheating
or they cheating you know our whole civilization built on finding better represent patience
for ideas what representation is is something that simply calculate more especially the
kinds of answers that you're interested in just like when we went from how you can represent
the or because of the planet using ptolemy system of having the earth at the center and
having lots of after psycho by making the upper cycles and the rule sufficiently complex
you can show where the plants are going or you can go to um the newtonian copernican
type system the has the son of the center analytical or you get something it as much
simpler for the whole point of represent patience is that are like you have to change and any
noticeable fashion in measurable history and probably has changed four hundred thousand
or maybe even a half a million years imagine the tragedy of having two hundred fifty i._q.
ten thousand years ago [noise] of perhaps that was the acute leonardo have that in the
tragedy of having that when he had his able conceive of all these things but even the
person uh within intellect far beyond most people of his age could not france and the
age enough to build the uh the motors and power devices that would be needed to make
any of those things were babbage has been transcending idea about the computer in the
last century but the things he went up inventing modern mechanical drawing on the part of life
which were tools to make the tools you never got around to doing the tools so to me i think
the most important thing about learning thank has to do with the power of using different
representations the think with and so this little game is something that everybody understands
immediately uh and they don't even usually give me a blank look what i said well that's
all mathematics us all mathematics is taking stuff and finding things like the tic tac
toe magic square which allow uh think more strongly about the parts of it that we've
decided are important that's what we do every time we think about something that's important
understand that when we were able to think well it is usually because we've just guarded
many many thing uh marvin minsky the work with anymore for many years likes to say you
don't understand something was uh if you don't understand something if you only understand
it one way or the reason to have a deep understanding of something usually means to understand part
of it very strongly by using some special way of representing like mathematics for computer
simulation and if that is the only thing we understand about it then we've actually cut
ourselves offer many appreciation of the thing as the whole system but we need to look for
different ways of doing things i think what you see what i'm driving at here that uh one
reason so i'm not using the computer in this presentation is i believe that the first i'm
not against them i love the thing the great fun but just as with music what i would do
is to find a way that you can sing with your child i these things involve playing various
kinds of games puzzles things that get images into the child reading stories producing stories
uh i'm doing reasoning about things that there's not require a simple but if it's this way
i could be this way the free up the trials imagination one of the interesting things
to happen the children around third grade that seems to be somewhat universal or even
explanations for is the children tend to get a conservative around third grade or um the
reason seems to be that uh they grow up in the world it seems quite chaotic they have
to make sense of it and then they kind of over shoot a in gathering up all the rules
and they were you uh come up with a somewhat rigid conception of themselves in the world
with the ram by around a._j. that's one of the uh studies around the world it seems to
confirm this is the progression of children's art of the free form nature of it uh early
on and then the very rigid category uh categorical type of are the kids get around the age of
seven or i i think the parents can do the hell is to find ways to free up the trials
imagination one more one time one of them is uh having eh what you might even think
of is is somewhat repressive a notion of how television should be watched that is actually
one of the worst my opinion is one of the worst things you can possibly let the child
doing it on restrain manner for many different dimension not just the concern of the time
not just that it's simple minded and about categories and recognition but also because
a lot of the things that are on television are not in any way make any distinction between
adult life and child's life i think all those things are very important consideration the
other thing i think without from a psychologist that nobody knows how it works even the psychologist
and so it is very difficult to make a statement that our pre script too but i think one of
things we need to appreciate if it is how different are actual thinking prophecies are
from the way we think are thinking process things were we think of ourselves as single
identity there's on me and myself where all the same person i can remember back to when
i was a child uh when i do something i feel guilty about it uh i feel guilty i never blame
apart of myself for that so that's kind of this monolithic notion that we have of identity
you have to true seems to be quite different example if i could have the slides of course
the whole point of the slightest nobody knows how the mind works but consider the one of
my favorite example is the upside down face and if you look at it closely you'll see that
there's something a little strange about it maybe could focus of the stuff there all the
anybody say anything to smell the fear turning your head give a quiz afterwards okay the
the mouth is a is upside down i anything else the i forget where in most schools in the
u._s. today we're now i just thought of as being the fluid that is transfer drop by drop
from the full feature vessels fiancee student vessel fly called a theory of knowledge and
that blew it is mostly in terms of english sentences for the idea is if i know something
i telecommute when english then you should understand it and that's all a teaching and
learning a are about very simple minded conveyor belt kind of notion only give you an english
sense about the photo what we've taken the photograph of the young girl extracted horizon
now for them upside down put them back into the picture and then turn the entire picture
upside down that's a reasonable to everybody yeah so you should be quite prepared for what
it looks like right beside up i'm not trying to that 'cause i discover that nobody will
listen to me when it's on the other so one of the bigger picture of a mama with
excel i gave you a complete disclosure of the picture and yeah you were quite surprised
when you saw what's going on here is as marvin seem more like the call is we have inside
here of society of mine's not a single yet that's doing the thinking force their different
parts of us doing thinking and they do a different way but i gave you the english that went in
through the years went over to the left hand side of the brain was evaluated their as something
close to a proposition and uh everybody thought okay that's probably that was that sounds
reasonable no emotional reaction it all show you the picture goes in through the eyes go
to the back of the brain come down on the on the right hand side of the brain words
process completely different like em there's the surprise reaction that surprise reaction
is actually going on all the time except we don't realize it when we learning about things
learning about computers in school learning about ideas different parts of us are learning
about it in different ways and some of those parts of us are learning about it better now
in fact we even have a part of our brain or mentality if you will i mean not caught part
of our brain barber mentality that thinks things are more true if they were my
my sofa dolls where to put out of print the ad it said you'll become a better looking
person if you eat mcdonald's hamburgers you're rejected the pros senses the proposition they
came out with the slogan that said uh a big mac and fries blender your five
so i'm more plausible well anthropologists i've noticed that we seem
to have over a long period of passing down our culture in the oil production that we
seem to have selected people who are good at remembering things in terms of rhyme resnick's
games and affect anything that's put into a scheme or the next thing is not only remember
better but it's got to be more true i thought to be more true because back then when that
was the only way remember things the only things are put in there with the things the absolute with ought to be true so oh point of this is that what we have going on is kind
of patchwork quote different horses training in different directions they're all trying
to think about the world and the most one of the most powerful things we can do is to
try and when we try and learn about something to try and learn about it in different ways
to learn about it with our body as piaget's adjusted for very young children to learn
about it in terms of configurations and simple relationships individual kind of way to learn
about things in terms of chains of in front of connecting the things we think are facts
together to get things from up uh get things i making inference here the seymour's pointing
to was watch means i should uh quit talking is that right yes okay okay so so i mean we
were this with this final uh thought if i can run that videotape place i was a twenty
two month old little girl and she has never lived in the world not densely populated by
macintoshes is actually very early is back in nineteen eighty five about their mother
and father are work at home and each of her mother and father has macintosh and i found
out the little girl two months before her who's now two months before second birthday
why why that she was interested in computers i i gave her an apple two which he rejected
she didn't know what that was but what you want it was what mommy and daddy had in
fact i don't want you to be to impress here because she's actually using the macintosh
by about six months for about six months here so she actually started the mac um when she
was about a year and a half old and uh even though we'd originally designed the system
for children we never thought to try it on one so young i was quite interesting to see
her are constantly using all the stuff it was built to take advantage of what her mind
was actually able to do or what happened that's really amazing they want the fresh piece of
paper so she goes up to the clothes block of the window saves or drawing using the pop
up to go to the pull them to get the new one and she's off rolling again in fact we discovered
that at age twenty two months she was about seven probably stop it plays that age twenty
two much she was about seventy percent literate in the interface that we didn't decide to
be more an accord with the way the human mind actually seems to work so you're the two sides
of the ad i think the music may not be in the piano but the computer's a heck of a piano
can be used by children even earlier than when they can use the piano and yet in order
for them to use it and not wind up being shackles by the prosthetics but we have to do is they
help develop the inter music for which the computer is the best instrument thank you