Difference between revisions of "Alan Kay Interview for nerdear.la 2020"

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<subtitle id="0:1:14">living organisms can survive in their own waste products</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:7:2">foreign</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:7:15">hello everybody uh</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:7:18"> thank you for inviting me to talk</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:21">i thought</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:7:24"> my bio</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:27"> is very very brief</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:30"> pretty much everything i did uh [Music]</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:33"> came from my research community</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:36"> and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:39"> nobody owes more to it than i do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:42">i'm not going to talk much about the research community</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:45"> xerox park and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:48"> arpa but occasionally i'll refer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:51"> to it and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:7:54">the</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:7:57"> talk today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:0"> really is in three short</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:3"> parts because i would like to get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:6"> to the question and answer session</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:9"> i think that would be the most interesting for</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:12"> for all of us i'm going to try and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:15"> get through the talk uh quickly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:18"> enough to leave time for questions and answers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:21"> and uh</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:8:24"> maybe some of the things i say will help</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:8:27"> with the questions and answers so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:30"> three parts are</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:33"> about pollution</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:39">the kinds of poor thinking that humans do that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:42"> gets us in trouble especially</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:45">software and other parts</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:48"> of the world how to find better</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:51">than the ones most of us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:54"> pick and then we'll get into the question and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:8:57"> answer session</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:0"> so the first uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:3"> idea about pollution here is this very old slide</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:6"> that goes all the way back to the 1950s</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:9"> of a cartoon character named pogo</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:12"> looking at all the trash and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:15"> he says we've met the enemy and he is us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:18"> and that's even more true today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:21"> because the amount of trash</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:24"> we have is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:27"> much much larger in fact</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:30"> we can see that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:33"> just one of the trash cycles</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:36">in the middle of the pacific is almost the size</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:39"> of the united states</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:42"> and this is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:45"> just the surface that we can see</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:48"> so they estimate that perhaps 85 percent of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:51"> it is below the surface</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:54"> and whenever i see pictures of this it kind of makes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:9:57"> me think about software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:0">it's just a really</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:3"> immense amount of it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:6"> bigger than most countries</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:9"> and one of the reasons we have it it doesn't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:12"> seem like you have to do any real thinking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:15"> to use</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:18"> trash make trash throw it away</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:21"> put it somewhere else and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:24"> it just gathers up and gathers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:30">and of course computing is that way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:33"> most of the software that's made in the world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:36">is not done thinking about the future</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:39"> in fact most of the costs of doing software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:42"> are because of what wasn't</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:10:45"> done in the present to</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:10:48"> make the 85 percent of the costs</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:10:51"> of software in the future much much lower</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:54"> instead everything is done right now in the present</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:10:57"> it's done too quickly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:0"> and we wind up with this immense amount of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:3"> trash and of course the software doesn't go</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:6"> in the middle of the pacific ocean</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:9"> so it's perhaps it's a little bit</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:12"> more like a slum that's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:15"> the size of the united states</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:18">perhaps we're living inside</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:21"> of this</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:11:24"> software trash</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:27"> or slum that's still running</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:30"> most of it hasn't been turned off</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:33"> and there are many</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:36">go with this i'm just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:39"> going to pick one for this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:42"> talk so one of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:45"> the historical reasons for how we get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:48"> into these kinds of troubles is that in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:51"> our genes like many</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:11:54"> animals many mammals</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:11:57"> especially primates our</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:0"> natural instincts are to tinker with things poke</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:3">see what happens if i do this what happens if</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:6"> i do that and not worry about the consequences</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:9"> it was hard to get hurt 200</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:12:12"> 000 years ago and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:15"> so trying this and that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:18">'s natural it's not something we want to get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:21"> rid of if you don't know what else to do it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:24"> is kind of fun to tinker</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:27"> but take something like clay which</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:12:30"> resembles a computer in that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:33"> you can make the clay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:36"> go anywhere you want you can push it around you can tinker</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:39">it forever but it's</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:12:42"> really hard to tinker it into something great</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:45">you just don't get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:48"> by it tinkering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:51"> into something that's wonderful</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:54"> like this statue of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:12:57"> uh voltaire</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:0"> what you get is kind of a mess</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:3"> to get voltaire you have to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:6"> learn a lot of things you have to think about a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:9">develop skills</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:12"> what you get when you tinker is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:15">omething like this child making a little cup</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:18"> and when you see something like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:21"> this with software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:24">you can complain and say hey</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:27">that's not good enough and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:30"> these days what people say is well this is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:33"> a start when i complained about the world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:36"> wide web and especially the web browser</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:39"> more than 25 years ago i said well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:42">is just a start this is a start we'll we'll make it better</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:45"> in fact they didn't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:48"> many of the things that were wrong then especially</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:51"> with interaction and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:54"> end user creation of things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:13:57"> are as bad today or worse</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:0"> so what you get when you start off badly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:3">with a tinkering frame of mind is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:6"> something that looks like it was tinkered</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:9"> into existence which is great when a child does it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:12">but you really don't want adult professionals</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:15"> to be putting a zillion of these out</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:18">into the world so if we come back</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:21"> to tinkering historically we should ask well what came</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:24"> after tinkering and the answer is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:27"> engineering which is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:30"> making things using principles</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:33"> so by trying things out you find ways that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:36"> work you remember those ways that work</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:39">them up they may even be literally</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:42"> a cookbook or they're like a cookbook</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:45"> and then you have a set of things that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:48">are likely to get you faster</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:51"> where you're trying to go and to get you something that's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:54"> better now you still have to make the thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:14:57"> so making is part</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:0"> of both tinkering and engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:3">but basically in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:6"> any real field</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:9">that involves making things we want to be able to move from tinkering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:12">engineering so that the goal is engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:18">and of course even bad engineering has</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:21">principles there are bad ways to cook</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:24"> things using principles so we also have to ask</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:27"> are the principles good enough</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:30">and after engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:33"> thousands of years after engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:36">the kind of mathematics that we recognize today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:40"> was invented about 2500</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:42"> years ago and it also involves</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:45"> principles but the principles are about reasoning</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:48"> and representation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:51"> and about 2 000 years later</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:54"> what we call science today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:15:57"> was invented</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:0"> one of the most important inventions of all time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:3"> because its principles</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:6"> are about how we negotiate with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:9"> the bad stuff inside our heads our brains</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:12"> ask the deal using</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:15"> the kinds of belief structures and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:18"> memories and everything else we have in here with the phenomena</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:21"> that we experience in the world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:24"> and so it winds up being a negotiation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:27"> and it is a deep skill</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:30"> it's not something built into the human race</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:33"> it was invented very recently and it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:36"> one of the most powerful things that we've invented</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:39"> it's also not understood very well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:42"> and people who are good these days</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:45">work</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:48"> in a sweet spot</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:51"> of all four of these things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:54">and if you think of yourself as an engineer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:16:57"> these days you still know mathematics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:0"> you still know science you still know</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:17:3"> tinkering you think about yourself as a scientist</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:6">you still know mathematics you still know engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:9"> so where you are on this scheme</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:17:12"> depends partly on your personality</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:15"> but basically the people who are really</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:18">good use all four of these things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:21"> and try to choose which ones are the most</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:24"> reasonable at time to time so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:27">get into this sweet spot is part of the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:30"> idea of being a modern</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:33"> practitioner in a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:36"> stem field now</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:39"> if we look at computing and ask where is it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:42"> it doesn't look so good it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:45"> mostly tinkering still today a little bit of engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:48"> tiny about a bit of math and almost</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:51"> no science and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:54"> most of the engineering is in the hardware</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:17:57"> why is that well it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:0">get away with murder</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:3"> with hardware software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:6"> people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:9"> can make things that are quite dangerous</subtitle>
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<subtitle id="0:18:12">but in fact because they can be debugged and fixed and patched</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:15"> and so forth they get away with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:18"> much more than any piece of hardware</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:21"> can so much of the engineering and computing is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:24"> in hardware and the vast</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:27"> majority of software people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:30">think it can be done without learning about engineering without</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:33"> learning about mathematics and without learning</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:36">science and that is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:39"> kind of where this mess comes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:42"> from now when i started</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:45"> off programming i started</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:48"> off like most everybody else</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:51"> which is not knowing anything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:54"> uh important about it i happen to start</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:18:57">a long time ago around 1961</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:0">in the air force</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:3"> but i think my situation back then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:6"> was similar to what it is today and that somebody else was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:9">choosing for example</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:12"> what computers i worked on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:15">they were choosing what operating system in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:18"> the case of this machine it didn't have an operating system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:21"> which in some ways made life simpler</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:24"> they chose the programming language</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:27"> for this machine it was assembly code</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:30"> development system well it didn't have one</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:36">the design or lack of design was represented</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:39"> in flowcharts back then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:42"> done by other people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:45">the legacy system were huge</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:48"> punch card systems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:51"> and the job for us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:54"> coders coders were</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:19:57"> people who turned flowcharts into machine code</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:0"> so we were essentially compilers of the higher</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:3"> level language of flowcharting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:6">and nobody cared</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:9"> my opinions and i also didn't know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:12"> much so that was a situation of course</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:15"> after after this i went on to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:18"> do slightly higher level programming on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:21">supercomputers still mostly in machine code</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:24"> still with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:27"> other people choosing the machines and the choices and so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:30"> forth so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:33"> now it had happened that i had gone to an engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:36"> high school and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:39"> i had gotten</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:42"> a undergrad an undergraduate degree</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:45">mathematics and another one in molecular</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:48"> biology so i knew</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:51"> something about engineering i knew something about mathematics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:54"> i knew something about science but it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:20:57"> just wasn't in the computing part of things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:0"> which i used as a job to put</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:3">hrough college so i was a journeyman</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:6"> programmer then in 1966</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:9"> i accidentally wound up in grad school</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:12"> my theory was spend a year</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:15"> learning something about computing and avoid</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:18">getting a real job and avoid going to grad school</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:21"> in math or biology and by</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:24"> accident i round wound up in this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:27"> advanced research projects agency</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:30">research community that by 1966</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:33"> had already invented quite a few things they didn't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:36"> invented the first parallel computers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:39">real-time computers with displays</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:42"> and pointing devices they'd invented</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:45"> the first interactive graphics system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:48"> of a modern kind time sharing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:51"> uh artificial intelligence</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:54"> there's already a first little personal computer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:21:57"> the tablet the mouse</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:0"> hypertext and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:3"> they were starting to talk about uh making a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:6"> packet switching network which was called</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:9"> the arpanet they hadn't done it yet</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:12">so that was the world that i found myself in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:15"> and it was full of people who were</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:18">completely unlike the people that i'd worked</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:21"> with in the air force the people in the arpa community</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:24"> they all had extensive</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:27">of them uh phd's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:30"> in engineering of some kind</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:33"> like electrical engineering or mathematics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:36"> or science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:39"> and what they were trying to do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:42">take what they knew about these developed fields</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:45"> these difficult fields that have been developed</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:48"> over many decades and hundreds of years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:51"> and to see what they could use</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:54"> from this experience in this new</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:22:57"> world of computing and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:0"> so pretty much everything i had learned</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:3"> as a journeyman programmer was worthless</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:6"> the way i went about doing it was worthless</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:9"> so i wound up having to learn</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:12">again but this time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:15"> from this point of view of engineering math</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:18"> and science that this community had</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:21">community not only made</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:24"> its own software made its own programming languages</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:27">but it also made its own hardware whenever it needed it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:30"> so it's basically full spectrum</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:33">computing and in order to get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:36"> any kind of degree there you had to learn how to do this full</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:39"> spectrum computing of hardware and software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:42">and there are some</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:45"> really famous people who will</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:48"> be known to you today perhaps the patron saint</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:51"> of programming don knuth</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:54"> was there and he his</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:23:57"> degree was in mathematics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:0">and turned himself</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:3"> into what i think we'd all think of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:6"> as a great programmer i thought he</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:9"> was is still hanging</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:12"> in there doing well and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:15"> one of the things that he tried to get people to understand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:18"> is this saying premature optimization</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:21"> is the root of all evil</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:24">and it this was a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:27"> hard thing for him to say back then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:30">because you could hardly get any computer back</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:33"> in the 60s to do anything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:36"> without optimizing they were just really</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:39"> slow like they were a million times slower</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:42"> than your cell phone and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:45"> more than a million times smaller</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:48"> but don pointed out that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:51"> most parts of most programs</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:54"> doesn't matter how fast they run what you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:24:57"> really want to do is get the program right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:0"> identify the places that run too slowly and then find</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:3"> a way of optimizing those</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:6"> without disturbing the fact that you got the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:9">running and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:12"> there are many other sages back then here's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:15"> bob barton um my</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:18">world's greatest uh computer designer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:21"> designer of the furrows b5000</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:24"> he was a mathematician also and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:27">the things he like to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:30"> drum into our heads is that good ideas don't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:33"> often scale and of course there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:36"> are many other principles from back then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:39"> i could make a a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:42"> three-day course out of just the principles</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:45"> that these people used in the early</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:48"> 60s but for this talk i thought i'd just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:51"> stick with don's idea that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:54"> premature optimization is the root of all evil</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:25:57"> and ask well what is it that we should be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:0">thinking of then because we still want to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:3"> do something and if we can't optimize</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:6"> what is it that we should do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:9">well one thing we can do is try designing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:12"> that's a new thought to a lot of computer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:15"> people they just jump in and start</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:18"> writing code and think about well we'll design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:21"> it later but it doesn't work so well on the other hand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:24"> you have to write something because it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:27">really hard to design a whole system before</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:30"> trying things out it's too complicated</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:33"> but you start designing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:36"> if we are not going to optimize prematurely</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:39">somehow have to separate meanings from optimizations</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:42"> and this is something we can bring up in the question</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:45"> and answer thing of what are the different ways of doing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:48">this what does it mean</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:51"> to separate a meaning from the optimization</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:54">for now let's just think of it as a meaning is the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:26:57">write no matter how slow</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:0"> that can be debugged</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:3">and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:6"> allows you to know that you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:9">this meaning captured so like if it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:12"> if your idea in one part of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:15"> the thing is you have the idea of sorting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:18"> then your little module layer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:21"> would be the simplest way to do a sort</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:24">it could take forever to sort but it guarantees to be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:27">you something that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:30"> you can use for testing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:33"> things and also you can use for testing out the optimizations</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:39">and once you have the system running no matter how slowly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:42"> you can then carefully add in the optimizations</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:45"> and you can add them in in a way that they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:48"> do not pollute the meanings in fact you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:51"> can use the meanings to test the optimizations</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:54">and by testing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:27:57"> the the optimizations you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:0"> want to constantly be able to turn the optimizations off</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:3"> see whether this is that part of the system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:6"> still runs or not turn the optimizations on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:9"> see if you get the same results</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:12"> you can have the meanings and the optimizations running</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:15"> at the same time until you trust the optimizations</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:18"> and so forth so there's a whole scheme of things you can do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:21"> here and in fact</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:24"> these kind of things are done in regular engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:27"> disciplines what i call real engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:30"> so the designing and separating</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:33">from optimizations is called computer-aided design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:36"> in regular engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:39"> these lead to simulation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:42"> so you want to simulate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:45">before you commit to doing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:48"> the much larger work of packaging</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:51">so you have to have a way of simulating what does that mean well we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:54"> can talk about that when you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:28:57"> add the optimizations in you better add them in through</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:0"> the cad tool and then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:3"> let the simulator worry about how you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:6">test the optimizations against the meanings</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:9">well you have real-time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:12"> requirements and your program</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:15"> might be running too slowly so you just find</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:18"> a super computer this is what the rpa community</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:21"> did maybe these days</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:24"> as you're purchasing super computer time online</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:27"> from amazon or google</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:30"> any organization that is targeting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:33"> things like this should be paying more</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:36"> upfront in order to make their actual</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:39">program development time uh faster</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:42">with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:48">and finally when you get everything going what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:51"> real engineering does is it starts thinking about fat</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:54"> and fab sometimes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:29:57"> requires some additions into</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:0">the cat for instance when you're</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:3"> making a bridge or a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:6"> table where you have two beams</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:9"> connecting each other you might have to put a gusset</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:12"> in there to help the connection</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:15"> itself might not be strong enough</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:18">so the little things that you have to add in there but you want them to be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:21">minor okay so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:24"> that is a typical thing that we find</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:27"> over and over again in real engineering electrical</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:30"> cad it's the way everything is done today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:33">nothing electrical</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:36"> especially no computer chip</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:39"> is done without completely simulating every aspect</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:42"> of it before it ever even goes to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:45"> masks and silicon</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:48"> every form of mechanical cad</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:51"> mechanical engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:54">this and the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:30:57"> simulations are particularly critical</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:0"> because in a jet</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:3">are many parts internally</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:6"> in a jet engine that are actually</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:9">their melting point is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:12">temperatures that are in parts of the jet engine</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:15"> it's really interesting how you make jet engines</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:18"> to allow these things that would melt</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:21"> not to melt uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:24"> biocad so here's something that's come along</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:27"> after computing and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:30"> yep the biologists knew enough</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:33"> to for bioengineering to make</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:36">real cad systems with real simulations to allow everything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:39"> to be done notice that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:42"> all of these things are done using computer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:45"> techniques computer displays computer power</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:48"> to do all of this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:51"> so the other engineering fields are using computers to really</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:54"> help them develop</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:31:57">nanocad</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:0">but when you look at</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:3"> in if you go into most companies and look</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:6"> to see how people are developing software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:9"> you don't find anything like this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:12">what the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:15"> what is it whatever</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:18"> it is it doesn't look like engineering and if you look closely</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:21"> it's really a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:24"> set of facilities for kind of tinkering around</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:27"> kind of organizing thing but it's mainly aimed at fab</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:30">it's much less</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:33"> aimed at design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:36">almost never almost never do you find</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:39"> sim as a key component</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:42"> it's mainly aimed as though</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:45"> yeah we can do everything right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:48"> we're smart enough to be able to write the end</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:51"> code and have all of the stuff and intertwine</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:54"> the optimizations and so forth</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:32:57"> so this is kind of a yikes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:0">now</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:3"> what if you don't have the cad</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:6"> tools most people don't for software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:9"> partly because they don't exist but even</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:12"> the great development systems many people don't develop</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:15"> using them well what if you don't have those</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:18"> and what if you don't have a super computer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:21"> and the lesson from the past</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:24"> is you should still do these things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:27"> every single one of them you just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:30">o put the optimizations</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:33"> in more carefully and a little bit</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:36"> earlier but you still must do the meanings</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:39"> first so this is a discipline</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:42">fact the difference between</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:45">gineering and math</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:49"> and science is the three math</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:51">engineering and science they're disciplines</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:54">disciplined when you're actually using them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:33:57"> so why don't most</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:0"> computer people do this well let</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:3"> me there are lots of reasons but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:6">i'll just pick one is part of it is because our brain</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:9"> really doesn't want to do all this work</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:12"> that's why it's a discipline so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:15"> we're actually poor thinkers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:18"> and we have about 200</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:21"> known ways that we think poorly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:24"> so i'm just going to pick one</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:27"> way one little part of this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:30"> very complicated set</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:33"> of bad machinery we have between our ears</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:36">and i'm going to use</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:39"> as an analogy</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:42">our thoughts or our context as</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:45">like a flat surface</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:48"> it's colored pink here</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:51">and our thoughts</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:54"> will can move around</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:34:57"> the surface like an ant crawling on a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:0"> table we can pick different directions</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:3"> if we find an obstacle</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:6"> we can figure it out how to go around it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:9">so notice everything that we're doing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:12">here is like what we call thinking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:15"> but every single thing is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:18">pink and we don't know it's pink because we've never seen</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:21"> anything but pink so this is a context</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:24"> that we think of as reality rather</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:27"> than something that we believe in or something that we've only</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:30"> been brought up in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:33">okay so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:36"> the other thing is uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:39"> when we're seeking goals we tend to cling</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:42"> on to our goals very very strongly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:45"> so if our goal is b</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:48"> and we will often pick b</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:51"> in there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:54"> so let's try and get to it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:35:57">we'll start working on it but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:0"> in fact the problem space might not actually</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:3">flat it just seems flat to the ant</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:6"> so we start moving towards b and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:9"> all of a sudden it starts getting really difficult and then we slide</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:12"> into a ditch</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:15"> why are we having so much trouble but we keep on fighting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:18"> towards b partly because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:21"> in school we've been told</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:24"> we must solve this problem and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:27">problems are usually given to us by other people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:30"> why do we cling so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:33"> strongly to these things well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:36"> let's go to africa here for a second and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:45"> the way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:48"> he's going to catch this baboon is he digs a hole in this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:51"> termite hill there's the young baboon there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:54"> watching it you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:36:57"> put some seeds</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:0">nice tasty seeds in the hole here</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:3"> then he just backs off and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:6">wondering what what's going on here</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:9"> and that's curious remember baboons are primates</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:12"> like we are</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:15">now looking around well the guy's over there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:21">maybe i should take a look</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:24">now when he gets close</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:27"> he can start smelling the seeds</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:30">reach us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:33"> in and he's got the seeds</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:36">but now we want to let go of the seeds</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:39">you can let go</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:42"> anytime but he won't let go</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:45"> so the hunter just comes over to him and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:48"> ties him up pulls</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:51"> him out and he's got the baboon</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:37:57">so let me just tell you i won't tell</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:0">what what happens after you can find this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:3"> uh movie on youtube</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:6"> and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:9"> the baboon does not get hurt</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:12">he hunter had a really interesting reason for wanting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:15"> to capture the baboon and you'll find that out</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:18">but for here uh what we need to understand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:21"> is the seeds</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:24">this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:27"> cognitive uh glitch</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:30"> which we have baboons have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:33"> and many other animals have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:36"> it's called loss aversion once we have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:39"> something we don't want</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:42"> to let it go it becomes much more valuable</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:45"> more valuable to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:48"> this baboon than his life because the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:51"> hunter might have wanted to kill him and eat his brains</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:54">ame thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:38:57"> with us that goal</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:0"> becomes more valuable to us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:3"> sometimes in our life</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:6">and often uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:9"> prevents us from actually solving</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:12"> problems uh that need to be solved</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:18">well if you knew more like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:21">actually a an explorer you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:24"> well when things get tough maybe</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:27"> we should re just explore around</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:30"> maybe we don't have to go up over this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:33">hill and then down the valley</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:36"> and back up in the hill and stuff maybe there's a way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:39"> around and this seems like well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:42"> we're going we have to go away from the goal to do this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:45"> yeah you have to go away from the goal</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:48">going to take you a longer distance to get to the goal</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:51"> but in fact it might take you less time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:54">and less effort to get to the goal</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:39:57"> in fact by looking off to the side boy there might</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:0">even be a super highway i've colored it blue because that's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:3"> my color for science science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:6"> is a super highway again you get go off out</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:9"> of your way get onto this thing you can go three times as fast</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:12"> and you get to the goal faster</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:15"> but if you start using science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:18">you might</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:21"> decide to invent a plane just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:24"> fly over the darn thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:27"> but once you start doing science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:30"> you've got this even bigger idea is wow there might</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:33"> be a non-pink world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:36"> there might be a whole blue world up there and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:39"> only in this blue world is there a goal</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:42">c that's the one i really wanted</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:45"> i didn't even know it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:48">and by the way if you think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:51"> about this in terms of your education if you went</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:54"> to a a really good university</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:40:57"> then you probably</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:0"> went in there with some goals like b a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:4"> really good university will change you so much</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:6"> that it will show you things like see</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:9">and your life will never be the same again</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:12"> so this idea of getting trapped</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:15"> in a context</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:18">and the idea that there are other contexts and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:21"> it takes some real effort to get out of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:24">seems real to these other contexts</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:27"> that might be more powerful this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:30"> is the message from this section of the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:33"> talk</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:36"> so how can we get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:39"> in the frame of mood to try and find</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:42"> these bigger goals</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:45"> these bigger visions</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:48">and again this is a huge area</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:51">the things uh i was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:54"> interested in still am</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:41:57"> is the idea of personal computing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:0">back in the 60s we used to say to people well person</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:3">is the first word in personal computing so you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:6"> better not try and do personal computing if you don't understand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:9"> uh persons and of course</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:12">people today do not understand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:15"> uh people at all and so the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:18"> most of the apps that are done are</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:21"> have terrible user interfaces and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:24"> are actually not very good for people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:27"> so this is a first lesson but in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:30"> fact this is a little bit of a red</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:33">because a person all by themselves</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:36"> is being punished</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:39">solitary confinement banishment</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:42"> we actually exist in a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:45"> society of people and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:48"> so when we talk about personal computing we have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:51"> to talk about humans in a culture</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:54"> we have to understand what humans</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:42:57"> are</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:0">that we share with other humans the thing that makes us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:3"> human and that will give us great insights</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:6"> into ourselves because it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:9"> hard to look at ourselves when we're in the pink plane</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:12"> and just see anything but pink</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:15">and in a society</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:18"> well we've got duties like voting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:21"> we have duties to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:24"> the next generation whether or not we have children</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:27"> every</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:30"> culture has its own world view we need to understand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:33"> those and get more powerful ones</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:36">every culture</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:39"> has some form of schooling we need to pay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:42"> attention to that there's this idea of richness</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:45"> richness is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:48"> outside the purely</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:51"> pragmatic we have large</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:54">respond to art and love</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:43:57"> and friendship and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:0"> many other things that are not strictly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:3"> pragmatic we need to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:6"> care for those and then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:9"> we have the thing that most people are worried about way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:12"> too much which is livelihood how can i get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:15"> a job many people go into programming</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:18"> because they think they can make money at</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:21"> it and this is a very bad reason for going into programming</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:24"> you really shouldn't if you're not going to go into</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:27"> programming to try and improve the world you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:30"> should try and look elsewhere</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:33"> and these things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:36"> here these seven</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:39"> things are part</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:42"> of especially in our day and age</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:45"> are part of a much larger context of what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:48"> you might call grand deadly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:51"> important issues</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:54"> i just have 12 here and you can think of more</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:44:57"> these are the things that we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:0">worry about also</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:3"> and these things are global now</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:6"> there's a large enough population</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:9">of the cultures</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:12"> have enough power to affect the entire world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:15"> and are thus affecting all of these things for everyone</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:18">pandemic now</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:21"> that is now worldwide and it gives</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:24"> people perhaps a bit of a sense although</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:27"> i think people still are not taking it seriously</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:30">and they certainly are not taking the climate seriously</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:33"> enough because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:36"> this world we live on is dying and we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:42">so a child born in 2020</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:45"> is going to be 80</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:48"> at the end of the century and you wonder what what is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:51"> going to be left for this child</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:54"> but if you're taking the point of view</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:45:57">that i'm advocating here the other way to look</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:0">it is wow 80 years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:3"> things could be much better for everybody in the world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:6"> 80 years from now if we just took all of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:9">this seriously and learned how to think better</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:12"> and the context is even bigger than the world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:15"> it's only been about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:18"> 100 years or so since we realized that the universe</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:21"> is vastly larger than our own galaxy</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:24"> and it's only been a few hundred years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:27"> since we realized we lived in a galaxy</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:33">we are now aware of most</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:36"> uh people on the planet in the form</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:39">thousands of different cultures all with different beliefs</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:42"> now all in communication</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:45"> through our technological structure this is a self-portrait</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:48"> of the internet but it stands</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:51"> for all of the technology that we've made</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:54"> over the last few hundred years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:46:57"> and we ourselves</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:0"> are a complex system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:3"> and our brains are</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:6"> even more complex systems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:9"> so one of the contexts here is this idea</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:12"> that what we need to be aware of is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:15">ystems that we live in and the systems that we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:21">and these systems are all interconnected</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:24">and intertwined so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:27"> most of them are invisible</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:30"> so the four ideas here</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:33">first science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:36"> is not just about finding out about how</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:39"> atoms work or how photons</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:42"> work or how stars work</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:45"> science the larger</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:48"> idea of science is the set of heuristics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:51">with to get around with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:54">brains this is the way to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:47:57">this is why everybody should learn science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:0">systems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:3"> is one of the strongest ways we have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:6"> to think about complexity and almost</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:9"> nobody learns systems it's not taught in classrooms</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:12"> at least in the united states and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:15"> over here in the in the uk</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:18"> and most computer people that i've talked to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:21"> outside of special</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:24">community most computer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:27"> people know very little about systems they think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:30"> programming is creating an algorithm</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:33"> rather than designing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:36"> a system and being part of a system so this is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:39"> a very weak view then two ideas from einstein</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:42">we cannot</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:45"> solve our problems with the same levels of thinking that we use to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:48">create them this is true of the small in computing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:51">the way people have been going about computing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:54">are just going to make things worse the way we've gone</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:48:57"> about health the way we've gone about climate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:0"> it's all going to make things worse if we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:3"> persist and einstein has this nice</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:6"> definition of insanity which is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:9">over and over and expecting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:15">that's what we're doing and again you can</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:18">if you think small in computing that's what we're doing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:21"> computing is hardly different today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:24"> except in scale than</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:27"> it was uh 60 years ago</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:30"> it's really a shame</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:33"> the scaling is just making things worse</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:36">because almost anything that was done 60 years ago</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:39"> couldn't handle</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:42"> scale very well we had to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:45"> invent entirely new methods to do things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:48">just even like the ethernet or the internet</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:51"> to make personal computing and the user interfaces</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:54"> scale across billions of people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:49:57"> so scaling is another issue that we could be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:0"> talking about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:3">so we can wind up here</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:6">talking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:9"> about the world's greatest hockey player</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:12"> his name is wayne gretzky</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:15">a thousand more goals than anybody</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:18">history and he was just a little</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:21"> guy wasn't big he wasn't tough</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:27">took a lot of shots on goals his his</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:30"> his percentage of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:33"> getting goals for shots wasn't very good and some people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:36">complained and he said well you miss 100</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:39"> of the shots you don't take so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:42"> his idea here is you you have to show up and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:45"> shoot on goal you can't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:48">worry you have to do all your planning ahead of time you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:51">whether any particular shot is going to go in you have to keep</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:54"> shooting and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:50:57"> he said well a good hockey player goes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:0"> to where the puck is a great one goes to where the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:3">going to be and he didn't mean tracking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:9">he meant getting to a place on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:12"> the ice where some teammate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:15"> could pass him the puck</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:18"> where he would have a clean clear shot on the goal</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:21"> so he would could understand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:24"> the patterns of uh all the players</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:27"> on the ice he could see well if i get over there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:30">somebody can get me a thing and then that will give me a shot</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:33"> on goal there so this is a completely</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:36"> different way because most sports especially</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:39"> sports like like hockey or football</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:42"> are basically tactical whereas</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:45"> gretzky was the greatest</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:48"> player in history because he was strategic</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:51"> and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:54"> he furnishes a good analogy for</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:51:57"> an example that i'll end with here from</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:3">so the first</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:6"> idea is uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:9">you have to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:12"> have ways of coming up with ideas</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:15">and as i mentioned in the beginning my way was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:18"> by being embedded in this incredible community</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:21"> that was full of rich visions and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:24"> interests in helping people so i didn't invent</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:27"> the idea of personal computing but this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:30"> is what i worked on for my thesis</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:33"> in 1968 and while i was working on it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:36">i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:39"> ran into seymour papert who had</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:42"> been he was a mathematician</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:45"> like me and he had realized some really important</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:48"> things about computers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:51">and how children could</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:54"> learn mathematics by taking advantage of what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:52:57">could actually do and when i met</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:0"> him in 1968 what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:3"> i saw was something that i understood</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:6"> and understood beforehand except i didn't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:9"> understand it i was in the pink plane</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:12"> and pappert was in the blue plane</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:15">he had seen something that was right there in front of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:18"> all of our eyes that combined</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:21"> what he knew about children and what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:24"> he knew about computers and what he knew about mathematics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:27"> that provided a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:30"> glimpse into a complete revelation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:33"> about how</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:36"> uh children's science and math education</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:39">changed and that just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:42"> completely blew my mind and so on the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:45"> plane flight back to utah i had a blue thought</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:48"> not a pink thought the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:51">oh this makes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:54"> computing really important makes it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:53:57"> more like reading and writing and if it's like reading and writing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:0">children have to do it and pappert is showing us how</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:3"> and that means children have to have their own</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:6">computer and it better be really portable because you don't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:9">confine them inside they need to be able to use it outside</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:12"> and arpa was working on uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:15">besides the arpanet working on a wireless version</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:18"> so it would be connected wireless it would have a flat screen</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:21"> display and so this cartoon</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:24"> is what i drew on the plane back to utah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:27"> and i started</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:30"> thinking about it and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:33">community the thought process</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:36"> went kind of like this well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:39"> you have this idea seems good</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:42"> might be bad but one of the things you should</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:45"> look around and see if there's are any exponentials that are going</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:48"> to help in the future it's not possible now</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:51"> so you can take the idea out 30 years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:54"> like to 1998 or 2000</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:54:57"> and ask what does this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:0"> idea look like 30 some odd years from now</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:3"> and the answer is oh yeah absolutely going to happen</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:6"> moore's law will guarantee that we'll be able to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:9"> do this but we don't know how people will use it we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:12"> don't know what the user interface would be like so then the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:15"> critical part is bringing it back uh 10</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:18"> to 15 years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:21"> bring it back to about 10 10 to 15</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:24">out in this case it was like 1985</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:27"> 1986 because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:30"> when you can get something within</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:33"> 10 to 15 years you can bridge the computing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:36"> gap by just paying money</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:39"> you can build the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:42"> function of a computer 10 to 15 years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:45"> from now you can build it now</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:48"> it's going to cost 10 20 times as much</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:51">it's going to be 10 or 20 times too large</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:54"> but you can build it and you can build a bunch</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:55:57"> of them so that's what we did we built</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:0">a little supercomputer for everybody at park in fact we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:3"> built about 2 000 of them and this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:6"> allowed us to have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:9"> a window to invent the software not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:12">just the the operating</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:15">interface but a whole bunch</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:18"> of the software that would be usable in 10</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:21"> years or so from then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:24"> and this computer is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:27">fast as what you could get from</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:30"> time sharing interactive time sharing and allowed</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:33"> us to do two things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:36">there's a whole bunch of stuff that we didn't have to optimize</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:39"> we could just program the meanings</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:42"> of user interface ideas hundreds of them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:45"> and do a dozen experiments a day</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:48">is what we did to invent the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:51"> part gui that everybody uses today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:54"> the other thing we could do is by optimizing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:56:57"> uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:0"> in the both of these in the way that i mentioned</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:3"> uh that allowed us to do the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:6">applications of the future uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:9"> in 1973 1974.</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:12"> this is microsoft word</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:15"> as it existed in 1974 at xerox park</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:18">than 10 years before it appeared</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:21"> uh commercially but it was quite</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:24"> possible to do because this machine was actually more powerful</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:27"> than a mac or an ibm pc</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:30"> of 1984 85 or so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:33"> right so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:36"> the simplest way to think about making progress</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:39"> here is always find ways of computing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:42"> in the future and even</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:45"> if you don't have a super computer there are ways you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:48">in the future because you can make a future</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:51">architecture just using</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:54"> software alone that is going to get you much further along</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:57:57"> okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:58:0"> made it to the question and answer and with that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:58:3"> i'll turn it back to my friends</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:58:6">for the next phase of this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:58:9"> talk thank you very</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:58:12"></subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:58:15"></subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:58:18"></subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:58:21"> much</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:58:48">is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="0:59:3">in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:18">can you both hear me okay yes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:21"> yes good so again</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:24">being with us alan and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:27"> so as i was saying i am not worthy to take this conversation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:30"> so i will just let you talk with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:33"> with hernan okay i'm not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:36"> worthy either but anyway i'll do it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:39">no no</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:42"> no thank you thank you very much alan it's it was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:45"> amazing the talk i i always enjoyed your talks</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:48"> uh it's a new way your worth</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:51">ways of thinking and new ideas and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:54"> and that's great not too many people do that so that's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:0:57"> amazing and i like to start talking about science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:0"> because that's something that i know you like and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:3"> you talk about it also and uh you know you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:6"> always encourage scientific thinking in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:9"> in people and i remember uh an example</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:12"> that you gave in the squeakers dvd like 20 years ago</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:15"> to quincy jones where you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:18"> you showed you know you told us that we science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:21">broaden our vision and in that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:24"> way we can you know see beforehand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:27">going to happen a long time from</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:30"> from now like for example aids and so on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:33"> um but in your</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:36">that we don't understand science very well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:39">my question is why is that why it's so difficult for</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:42">understand science and to think scientifically and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:45"> how can we change that well i think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:48"> if we look historically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:51">and if we think about science as</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:54"> what we think of as modern science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:1:57"> we it started really uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:0"> 400 or maybe 450</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:3"> years ago now the greeks had</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:6"> scientists but they didn't have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:9"> science because science is not just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:12">individual scientists but it's also a community</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:15"> that helps debug fondly held</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:18"> notions that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:21"> people as human beings have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:24"> right so zionists are humans as well and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:27">so um they like their own theories</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:30"> and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:33"> one of the one of the hallmarks of the existence</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:36"> of science is debugging</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:39"> of ideas and even</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:42"> ideas that seem to be backed up by experimental</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:45"> evidence the idea is it's not just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:48"> about what one person</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:51"> thinks is going on or tries to demonstrate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:54"> is going on if you go back historically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:2:57"> we can trace back humanity at least several</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:0"> hundred thousand years we know that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:3"> the uh the female line</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:6"> of humanity goes back 200 000</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:9"> years and so anybody</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:12">the question well how how could it possibly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:15"> have taken us 200 000 years to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:18"> invent science what was so unobvious</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:21"> about it and part of the answer is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:24"> uh our social</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:27"> uh cultures</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:30"> relied on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:33"> storytelling so regular</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:36"> language convolved</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:39"> with storytelling and using stories as a way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:42"> of remembering things and explaining things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:45"> and a story is like math</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:48"> it can be consistent</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:51">but it doesn't have to have anything at all to do with the real world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:54"> and the other part</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:3:57"> of it is if you look at optical illusions</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:0"> the thing that anybody</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:3"> who experiences an optical illusion has to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:6"> realize is oh i'm not seeing what's out</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:9">i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:12"> just think i'm seeing what's out there but actually what i'm seeing is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:15"> something manifested inside my own head</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:18"> and that's why i'm seeing some sort of parallel</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:21"> you know the simplest one is just measuring</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:24"> holding up your thumbs yeah and i can see</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:27"> in the in the video that the closer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:30"> one is about half the size</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:33"> but in fact what i'm experiencing is the closer one</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:36"> is about 80 percent of the size</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:39">because our brain knows they're the same size</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:42"> and so i'm seeing something about a third of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:45"> a second late that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:48"> is a manifestation of a combination of my</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:51"> beliefs and understanding with some input</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:54"> from the outside world putting together into</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:4:57"> a kind of a story which is presented</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:0"> back to me as reality and of course</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:3"> the though right now we have a perfect</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:6"> example for the world to see in the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:9"> american president that we have who basically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:12"> like all humans but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:15"> in a very public way is projecting his</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:18"> beliefs out onto the world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:21"> and taking that as his reality</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:24"> and that's basically what humanity is all about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:27"> you see it in computing all the time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:30">also if you just look at the comment section in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:33"> any slash dot or</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:36">this stuff you see people constantly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:39"> projecting their own beliefs</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:42"> and desires as reality</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:45"> so it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:48"> also happens that this is the 400th anniversary</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:51"> of one of the major</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:54"> starting places for science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:5:57"> so in 1620</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:0"> a guy in england here by the name of francis</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:3"> bacon wrote a book</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:6"> uh called the new organization of knowledge</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:9"> novum organum scientia</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:12"> science actually meant</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:15"> knowledge and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:18"> the gathering of knowledge it doesn't didn't mean back then what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:21"> we mean it today and in this book</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:24"> he points out that humans are terrible thinkers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:27"> in a many many ways</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:30"> he picks four his four favorite ones</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:33"> are were terrible because of our genetics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:36">in other words our brains weren't made to think they were</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:39"> made to do something else</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:42"> our cultures</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:45"> weren't made to think they were made to survive</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:48"> our languages were made for</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:51">stories not for representing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:54"> ideas very accurately or being able to use</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:6:57">to help think and then our academics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:0"> are teaching</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:3"> uh facilities uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:6"> will often teach ideas that have long</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:9"> been debunked</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:12">we are doomed basically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:15"> yeah close close to it so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:18"> so what uh what bacon called for is what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:21"> he said was we need a new science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:24"> and what he said is what what science is what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:27"> this new science is a new way to get knowledge</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:30"> is basically to come up with all the heuristics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:33"> and methods we can come up with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:36"> to get around with what's wrong with our brains</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:39"> so this is the big idea about science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:42"> and it's not taught in any school in the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:45">united states that i know of no we are not even</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:48"> close to that i mean yeah big idea about science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:51"> is not about uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:54"> no life on mars and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:7:57"> certainly not what you find in a science museum the science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:0"> museums in the us and the uk have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:3"> hardly any science in them at all they're full of technology</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:6"> which isn't the same thing at all</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:9"> but bacon's idea was much larger</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:12">so just to make everybody feel better or maybe worse</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:15">the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:18"> this 400th anniversary of some of the most</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:21"> important ideas of the last 400</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:24"> years has not been mentioned once</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:27"> in any of the british papers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:30"> so the the people in the uk are as innocent</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:33"> of scientific knowledge and history</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:36">everybody else in the world and they have no idea</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:39"> that science actually for real got started</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:42">what happened to us in our field</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:45"> in this software development with you know the the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:48"> people that created the development is has</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:51"> even a bigger problem which is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:54"> because uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:8:57"> when you start off with software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:0">you're starting off with something that probably isn't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:3"> going to kill anybody so it's not like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:6"> building a big bridge or building an airplane</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:9"> or something and so you don't really</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:12">have to know very much about engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:15">write a program you certainly don't have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:18">anything about science to write a program</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:21">and you don't have to really know anything about math to write a program</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:24"> yeah so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:27"> uh because simple programs will still do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:30"> something it's a little bit</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:33"> more like this game that was around for a while called</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:36"> guitar hero yeah where you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:39"> could pretend to be a guitar player</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:42"> and things with things would happen and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:45"> a lot of the attraction of programming uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:48"> when the 80s started up and the attraction of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:51"> the 8-bit micro computer was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:54"> just to touch it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:9:57"> just to feel part of this thing that was happening</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:0">the problem is none of the content happened and this is very</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:3"> common in pop cultures</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:6"> so pop culture will develop its own music</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:9"> which is usually much much simpler than</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:12"> uh develop music it will develop</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:15">its own notions of knowledge</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:18"> and science and you can see it uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:21">[Music] all over the world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:24"> through uh social media</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:27"> right so this is a universal</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:30"> publishing system as</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:33"> viewed by uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:36"> by the majority of people who</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:39"> haven't had the good fortune to undergo</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:42"> education in basically the 20th or the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:45"> 21st century so we have this enormous</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:48"> culture that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:51"> is not very far</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:54"> really from the middle ages</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:10:57">and we can see that by looking at</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:0">most of the world and most of the world's leaders</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:3"> have reacted to uh the covid</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:6"> think of it yeah that's right please because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:9"> anybody who's actually understood</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:12"> an eighth grade biology course</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:15"> these days those</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:18">should know exactly what's happened there's nothing that tricky about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:21"> it real question is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:24"> how infectious is it really but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:27"> as far as what a contagious</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:30"> deadly disease without a cure can</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:33"> do it should be something that every adult</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:36">on the planet</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:39"> at least in the first and second worlds</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:42"> should be able to respond to well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:45"> now new zealand did a great job yes yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:48">they had the right kind of leader the leader was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:51"> able to get business people and the politicians</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:54">both parties together and get everybody to agree</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:11:57"> to this how she did that i'm not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:0"> sure but he did</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:3"> do it and it results in there so if</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:6"> you prorate new zealand's 25 deaths</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:9"> with a population of 4 million</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:12"> you can see that almost every other country</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:15"> in the world has been needlessly killing off</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:18">tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:21"> of people uh unnecessarily</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:24"> just because hardly anybody is educated</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:27"> enough in something that you learn in seventh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:30"> or eighth grade biology so because business</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:33">life basically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:36"> well i don't think they think of it that way you don't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:39"> no they just don't see it i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:42"> think if you held a gun to the head of a businessman</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:45"> that said would</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:48"> you rather live or would you rather</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:51"> uh stay in business i think they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:54"> choose life most of the time most</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:12:57"> of the time yeah most of the time there's a famous</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:0"> there was a famous joke which i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:3"> is told better in the u.s okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:6">which i won't won't tell here but it's quite funny about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:9"> that so no i think the big problem</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:12">the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:15"> lack of imagination</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:18">so if you think about what that our brain imagine readily</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:21"> well we can readily imagine gods</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:27">we've never seen them but these are things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:30"> that are part of our subconscious</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:33"> and so and we have experienced them in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:36"> dreams so we can imagine things like that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:39">more readily than we can anything that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:42"> that is related to science or to think scientifically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:45"> yeah if it's if it's really small if it's really</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:48"> fast if it's really new</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:51"> and this is where bacon comes in because what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:54">is okay or or</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:13:57">sentence here so we can go okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:0"> next question is yeah yeah so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:3">you know the term artificial intelligence is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:6"> used widely and very loosely</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:9"> these days</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:12"> but if you think about it what is it what is artificial</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:15">intelligence well it's artifice</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:18"> it means making something you have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:21">so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:24"> somehow you're trying to make some sort of a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:27"> process that is going</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:30"> to act intelligent and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:33">impressed with any such process</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:36"> unless it's more intelligent than a human</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:39"> and so if we look for something on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:42"> the planet that is an artificial</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:45"> process that's more intelligent than any human</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:48"> there's only one and that's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:51"> science itself</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:54">science is a better scientist than any scientist</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:14:57"> and science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:0"> itself is that process</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:3"> that makes a group of people much more intelligent</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:6"> than human genetics human culture</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:9"> human language and human academics and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:12"> so uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:15"> so this should be a simple idea</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:18"> but partly be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:21"> because of the way education goes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:24"> uh science has been</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:27"> relegated to just another belief system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:30"> yeah and it is a belief</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:33"> system but it's a belief system that's backed</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:36">up with a lot more than most of the other belief systems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:39"> and that can reflect on itself and it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:42"> can change based on most mistakes that it makes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:45"> and those things that's basically what other belief</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:48"> systems don't do like religions not really</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:51"> i think argentina is a catholic</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:54"> country and one of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:15:57"> the most famous philosophers in history was saint thomas</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:0"> aquinas and reflecting on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:3"> christianity from the standpoint of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:6"> greek philosophy was exactly what he did do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:9">so you don't want to you don't want to use that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:12"> i think the thing that's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:15"> interesting about science is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:18"> the particular methods it uses to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:21"> try and deal with the noisiness of our human brains it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:24"> basically an error correct detecting and correcting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:27"> system if you learn how to do it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:30"> and it's basically a skill so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:33"> it's not something you know and some people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:36">it's like in music some people have a little more talent than others</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:39"> but in develop music talent</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:42"> won't do it you say you have to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:45"> practice and develop skills and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:48"> the same thing is true for thinking and thinking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:51"> is uh in the large</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:54"> is primarily the province of what's what science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:16:57"> is about so in computing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:0"> uh you can hardly see this recently</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:3"> recently meaning the last 30 or 40</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:6"> years so the in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:9"> the 60s and 70s i started in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:12"> like 1961 or 62</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:15"> the people who are doing what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:18">call computer science today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:21"> and what we call software engineering today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:24"> started off as real scientists</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:27"> and started off uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:30"> as real engineers yeah we weren't having undergraduate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:33">degrees that's right there was no</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:36"> no programming career or</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:39"> computer science career that's right and so the people who went</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:42"> into it were interested in it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:45"> and just like i did it from another perspective</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:48"> and that allows them to to see</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:51">we as developers don't see</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:54"> it was a special thing because don't forget there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:17:57">still ibm yeah back there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:0"> and there was i i learned to program in the military</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:3"> in the air force and the programming there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:6"> was just as uninspired</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:9"> as it is today yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:12"> what was special uh was that the the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:15"> research community that i just luckily</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:18"> stumbled into in the mid 60s</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:21"> had started thinking about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:24"> what the computer actually meant</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:27">and for them it was the next 500 year invention</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:30"> after the printing press</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:33"> and many of the things that were going to be important</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:36"> were how it could go qualitatively beyond</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:39"> the civilization building inventions</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:42"> of the past several thousand years like writing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:45"> mathematics science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:48">press and so forth and that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:51">o this idea and ibm</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:54"> did not have this idea the air force did not have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:18:57"> this idea but these people did</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:0"> and because they were in a good place and because the cold</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:3"> war was going on there was extra money in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:6"> the department of defense uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:9"> one of the people who had this idea got funded</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:12"> in a big way and he spread</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:15">the result is most of the technologies</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:18"> that we use today which are not invented by ibm</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:21"> not invented in the air force so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:24">a fortunate thing the processes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:27"> that led to those inventions</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:30"> hardly exist today yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:33">see those kind of research</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:36"> and in current industry at all yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:39">the opposite is all the opposite just short term</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:42"> i want to do this very fast and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:45"> yeah the talks i've given</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:48"> about this in the past the line i put</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:51"> up on the screen is the goodness of the results</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:54"> correlates most strongly with the goodness</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:19:57"> of the funders so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:0"> the rarest thing is a good funder because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:3">if you look at the bell curve at the top of the bell</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:6"> curve in every generation you're going to get uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:9"> you know super clever people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:12"> to draw and so the thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:15">different than was not us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:18"> we just happened to be the lucky people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:21">there the difference was in in the funding</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:24"> and the funders found us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:27"> and uh encouraged us to follow our instincts</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:30">and so we've got what we've got that's what we don't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:33"> have today yeah that's right so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:36"> let me go back just one more question about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:39"> science and then we can go to to software and and that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:42"> stuff so let's let me let me play a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:45"> devil's advocate here okay i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:48">just for a little bit i'm not sure if i can do it right but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:51"> anyway uh you know science is great you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:54">it as the most one of the most important achievement of humankind</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:20:57"> and uh but science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:0"> is what brought us here i mean not science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:3"> we humans using science as a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:6"> tool is what brought us to the situation where we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:9">waste everywhere with the climate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:12">you know the burning woods and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:15"> those kind of things because science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:18"> in science in in some way allow us to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:21"> think better how to build stuff</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:24"> but in the other way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:27">not ready to use that powerful</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:30"> tool so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:33"> scientific in thinking can help with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:36">e consequences of things but the actual historical</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:39"> fact is that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:42"> uh business</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:45"> technology and the industrial revolution</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:48"> led us to the problem we are what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:51">science did was to make engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:54"> immense</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:21:57"> and the industrial revolution that was starting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:0"> yeah was to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:3"> add on to this immensely powerful ways</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:6"> it transformed engineering from something</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:9"> that was essentially cookbooking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:12"> making cookbooks of things that worked</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:15"> doing things by uh by principles</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:18">being able to actually derive uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:21"> physical uh results</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:24"> and estimations and new</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:27"> kinds of materials and so forth so science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:30"> is a culprit in the sense that it opened</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:33">up the possibilities</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:36"> and the power ratio</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:39"> or what people can do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:42"> but basically when i look at</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:45"> history what i see is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:48">today what i see</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:51"> is people uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:54"> just trying to get ahead</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:22:57"> in various ways and for instance in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:0"> america i don't think most heads of businesses</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:3">are really all that aware that they're part of a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:6"> country particularly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:9"> the multinational ones and certainly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:12"> uh if we go back 200</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:15"> 000 years ago we have to look</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:18"> at something that we can find in all mammals</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:21"> that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:24"> that we have also which is trade-offs</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:27"> between two powerful forces</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:30">that are very different one is cooperation and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:33"> one is competition</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:39">the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:42"> more powerful one unfortunately is competition</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:45"> in the end</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:48"> it takes a very very special person</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:51"> not to try and save themselves</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:54"> even though we know cooperation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:23:57">better than competition it is and not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:0"> only that uh you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:3"> know the reason uh there are social species</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:6"> of which we are one of them is because cooperation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:9"> uh even if you're in a wolf pack</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:12"> allows the pack to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:15">and you're in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:18"> a baboon troop it allows the baboon so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:21"> uh cooperation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:24"> evolved as</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:27"> uh all the other traits evolved</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:30"> underneath that though</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:33"> is competition and so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:36"> you know sociologically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:39"> people feel deprived if they are put into</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:42"> solitary confinement or banished</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:45"> but as soon as they get back into society</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:48"> they start competing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:51">and it radiates</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:54"> out from them to their</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:24:57"> you know there's a saying in some of the arab</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:0"> countries that uh me against my</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:3">i against our family</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:6"> our family against our neighbors</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:9">o these</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:12"> uh tribal uh identity</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:15"> things radiate outwards</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:18">and there are many science fiction stories written about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:21"> how to unite the human race will just uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:24"> attack the world with aliens</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:27"> and all of a sudden then the humanity can see itself</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:30"> as a bigger tribe that's right and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:33">get together and fight the aliens because yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:36"> so this this is the this is uh thinking of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:39"> completely immature beings who have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:42"> no real sense of of what's going on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:45"> the big deal in business</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:48"> is at least in america</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:51"> is most of the ceos i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:54"> know are not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:25:57"> really aware that the reason</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:0"> they're making money at all is because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:3"> they exist within a cooperative structure</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:6"> that was set up 250</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:9"> years ago the wealth</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:12"> that they are tapping into is there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:15"> because of the cooperative structure and then they're competing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:18"> underneath it so again just just to finish</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:21"> this off to go back 200 000 years ago</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:24"> you ask well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:27"> if we go back before there's hardly any</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:30"> culture there's probably never</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:33"> a time you know because uh primates have cultures</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:36"> oh so before that even before</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:39">go back okay when we have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:42"> almost no culture</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:45"> there's almost no language yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:48"> but we ask well what uh how did things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:51"> uh managed to survive back</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:54"> then and the answer is genetically we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:26:57"> have drives to reproduce</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:0"> that are very strong yeah we have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:3"> uh drive</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:6"> to find food and water</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:9"> so hunting and gathering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:12"> is predates any kind</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:15"> of cooperation if you're</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:18"> by yourself you're still going to be looking for food and water</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:21">yeah and if you think about hunting gathering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:24"> it doesn't scale well yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:27"> right hunting and gathering one of the scalings</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:30"> of it is to steal things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:33"> one of the scalings of it is to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:36"> uh strip a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:39"> cooperative area dry yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:42"> so there are many many variations</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:45">of this and so one of the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:48"> complaints that you could have about school</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:51"> is that schools do not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:54"> teach at least in the united states again</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:27:57"> schools do not teach the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:0"> children anything important about their own species</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:3"> these are kind of taboo subjects</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:6"> what are human beings actually</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:9"> and we just we aren't very</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:12">pretty as a species when you start looking at it from that standpoint</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:15"> but the good part</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:18"> of looking at it that way is we get to see</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:21">how a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:24"> civilization can be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:27"> kinder can be more cooperative can</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:30"> be smarter all of these things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:33">and that is something that uh you need to learn early</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:36"> because certainly mo i would say most american adults have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:39">idea about this at all from their standpoint</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:42">his battle for survival</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:45"> yeah competition is is being taught in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:48"> high school and schools on sports</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:51"> and all those things instead of instead of cooperation yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:54"> yeah and rhetoric and governments is we're</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:28:57"> not competitive enough what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:0"> how could what does that mean on a finite planet</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:3">hat's crazy</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:9">i don't mean as a metaphor i mean this it is literally</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:12"> insane yeah well it's what is happening to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:18">yeah and of course the you know scientists</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:21"> were aware of the climate problems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:24"> uh starting in the early 60s</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:27"> yeah yeah they knew</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:30"> about it and and the people the business people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:33"> tried to not to the idea to spread</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:36"> out yeah yeah it's not if the business</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:39"> people really understood it they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:42"> uh could actually see</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:45">one of the one of the biggest problems with lack of history</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:51">is besides</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:54"> trying to avoid blunders that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:29:57">done early</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:0"> we reinvent the flat tire all the time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:3"> as you said reinvent the flat tire all the time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:6"> but the other thing is we miss opportunities</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:9"> so for example whenever we've had</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:12"> a big calamity</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:15"> in the last 100 or more years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:18">usually</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:21"> things have not been prepared well enough for it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:24"> these glamorous are usually wars not always</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:27"> but for example the result</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:30"> of the wars</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:33"> the aftermath of the wars is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:36"> usually prosperity</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:39"> and the reason is is that it's in war when</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:42"> there's the extra investing kind of investment</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:45"> that conservative people don't like to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:48">make or anything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:51"> yeah when you're really</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:54"> in trouble you might give a smart</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:30:57">person you don't understand some money anyway</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:0"> just right and so the kind</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:3"> of funding research funding that's done during a war</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:6"> is unfortunately almost the only</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:9">kind of research funding that is uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:12"> that has been done it's when people this is why the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:15">institute of health in the united states</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:18"> gets more than three times the funding than all of the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:21"> national science foundation national</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:24"> science foundation funds all the other sciences</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:27">but the national institute of health why because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:30"> people are afraid of dying so they're much</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:33"> politically they they can</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:36"> imagine their own death they're afraid of it and there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:39"> is a goal that unites them to do that funding</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:42"> yeah in that case the real</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:45">problem with all of the the problems in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:48">recreating arpa and xerox park</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:51"> uh in recent times</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:54"> have been that the the mostly billionaires that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:31:57"> have tried it uh they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:0"> want to uh direct the research</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:3"> yeah and i've told any number of them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:6"> i said well you shouldn't be doing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:9"> this because if you look at why arpa and xerox</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:12"> park succeeded</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:15"> the people who directed the research were the people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:18"> who were going to do the research the people who chose the problems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:21"> were these uh top</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:24"> researchers that's right and with all due respect</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:27">sir you've spent the last 20 years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:30"> becoming a billionaire</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:33"> researcher and so the chances that you can</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:36"> pick a good research problem are essentially zero</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:39"> you just want to be a wannabe</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:42"> you want to be part of this and you're</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:45">not satisfied with your billion you want to do this too</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:48"> but you're incompetent to do it so in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:51"> government it's slightly different uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:54"> where the people who are responsible</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:32:57">think they need to be in control because you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:0"> know they are responsible yeah that's right but the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:3">made arpa and park different was that the people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:6">who are responsible knew they couldn't be in control</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:9"> yeah yeah big lighter and bob taylor they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:12"> allow you to do whatever you want</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:15"> for trying to get a culture</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:18"> going trying to find talent</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:21">responsible so taylor</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:24"> never suggested a single research</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:27"> project uh at park and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:30"> lick lighter stayed with his vision</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:33"> and people asked well how are you going to do the vision</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:36">know but i'm going to fund people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:39">know yeah and they'll take</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:42"> 30 or 40 this is you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:45"> this is more like playing baseball yeah it's hard</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:48"> to get and it is interesting because bob</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:51"> taylor was a psychologist wasn't he</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:54"> and lee glider that's right so they they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:33:57">knew how people how to get people together</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:0">stuff i think there is some of that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:3"> both of them happen to be experimental psychologists</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:6"> okay we're not clinical</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:9"> yeah yeah and they're</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:12">different personalities lick was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:15"> just a very nice guy</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:18"> and okay you're special though he was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:21">one of the inventors of cognitive psychology</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:24"> so he's special but his personality was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:27">also special taylor</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:30"> was a uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:33"> much more aggressive</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:36"> okay he adored</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:39"> lick glider okay and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:42"> uh when he when he</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:45"> was part of the arpa thing he put a lot of effort</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:48">exactly why what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:51"> lick lighter did was working so well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:54"> and when he became head of head of the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:34:57">computing research at park he put those principles</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:0">he was not acting by instinct</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:3"> he knew how to do it you were basically yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:6"> he said uh this is what lick lighter</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:9"> did by instinct</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:12"> uh we can we can do this by method</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:15"> we'll just do do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:18"> it this way and park</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:21"> was a concentration of both</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:24"> talent and method yeah and it was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:27"> amazing wasn't it well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:30"> i mean everything that you've done there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:33"> yeah well i think the most amazing thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:36">was uh the bulk of the the work</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:39"> that's known today was done by you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:42"> 25 or 30 people yeah yeah everyone</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:45"> every part of it and so the concentration</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:48"> of of abilities there was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:51"> large and the concentration of method</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:54"> the taylor's application</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:35:57"> of what he thought was a good way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:0"> to do this thing was more powerful than the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:3"> than the more ad hoc arpa</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:6"> management way that he'd learn from</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:9"> so yeah so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:12"> so i always i when i look to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:15"> when people ask me questions i said well you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:18"> don't look at us look at look</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:21"> at the you know the four funders at arpa were</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:24"> lick lighter ivan sutherland</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:27"> larry roberts and then taylor</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:30"> came and did park and so if</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:33"> you if you want to thank somebody thank them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:36"> and you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:39"> uh when we've gotten metals in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:42"> the past uh i mean my</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:45"> line is that well um you know metal</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:48"> 40 years after the fact is okay but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:51"> the if you if you want a real</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:54"> reward think of the reward for being</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:36:57">this work yeah back</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:0"> then to actually do that's the big deal</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:3"> and then as much of a reward is the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:6"> fact that the funders were giving us gold medals</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:9"> and a lot more gold than was in the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:12"> gold medals they were giving it us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:15"> before the fact knowing that most of it was going to turn</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:18"> into lead so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:21">when you get funding like that and you get to do the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:24"> work uh you don't need anything uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:27">that's it that's it yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:30">place in the you know the right environment</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:33">you create it was great and we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:36"> knew it was great back then uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:39"> and uh our</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:42"> appreciation for it went up by about a factor of thousands</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:45"> after it ended</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:48"> yeah yeah yeah right because i was in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:51"> it i had been out</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:54"> of the regular culture</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:37:57">because i was in it in grad school and then uh for 10</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:0"> years at xerox park and so i've</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:3"> been completely isolated from the outside computing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:6"> culture for 15 or 16</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:9"> years and i was quite shocked</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:12"> when you get out of there yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:15"> about everything i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:18"> can imagine yeah yeah i can imagine so let's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:21"> go to that subject now to software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:24"> if you don't mind because i know i know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:27">that you can talk for an hour by yourself</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:30">i i need to do something you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:33"> you should interrupt me uh by the way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:36">much okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:39"> okay yeah but i'm not sure when to interact</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:42"> when to know but anyway so let's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:45"> let's talk about software and basically software design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:48"> uh you know for a long time software design has been</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:51"> thought as drawing uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:54"> on paper you know and to the design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:38:57"> was to draw basically what you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:0"> thought the organization of the system should be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:3">while you were running the system in your head</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:6">so you were imagining the system and then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:9"> making some draws and you know that was designed</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:12">time that was the classic idea as you mentioned</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:15">flowcharts in the air force uh you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:18"> know that was maybe thought as design but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:21"> uh you know we know that that doesn't work</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:24"> at least what you know the history</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:27">tell us that it doesn't work so what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:30"> is for you software design because you talk about it in your talk</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:33">you talk about cad and those kind of things so what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:36">activities should i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:39"> should be done in software design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:42"> i think the first thing is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:45"> uh i'm sorry i'm sorry to interrupt</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:48"> you to finish the question because you also</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:51">talk about meaning creation of meaning</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:54"> and how do you relate that to design i think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:39:57"> that the key point is there so yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:0"> i think the first thing the simple</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:3"> thing is that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:9">you know the thing i had to get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:12"> over in a hurry when i went from</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:15"> being a journeyman programmer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:18"> in the early 60s to accidentally</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:21">research community</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:24"> was that the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:27"> the average program</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:30"> in the early 60s was relatively</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:33"> easy to do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:36"> the computers were small and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:39"> so the main problem in programming back</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:42">then was more than anything else</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:45">get completely</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:48"> mired in optimization</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:51">because you had to optimize you didn't have enough memory you didn't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:54">enough uh cycles</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:40:57"> uh so that the tendency</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:0"> was to convol as people do today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:3"> yeah yeah we're still doing that having</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:6">that old school in in our heads yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:9"> so the uh however arpa</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:12"> was uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:15"> basically the people who</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:18"> were our mentors first</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:21"> generation people who were funded by lick lighter</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:24"> we're basically all systems people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:27"> they have many of them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:30">sage air defense</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:33"> system which was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:36">24 installations of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:39"> two computers the size of a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:42"> softball a football field</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:45"> wow there was one floor</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:48"> of a four-story building the basement of the building</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:51"> was the power supply for</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:54"> these computers so we could think of two amazing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:41:57"> and then the third</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:0"> floor was operations and the top floor</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:3"> had 150 graphics terminals</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:6"> that were run by these enormous</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:9"> vacuum tube computers and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:12"> the government built 24 of these block</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:15">houses wow all connected</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:18"> into the radar systems of the of the country</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:21"> and so that's what these</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:24"> people were doing in the 50s and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:27"> so the monumental scale</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:30"> of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:33"> people who came out of world war ii</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:36"> and i should mention here for</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:39"> people who are interested in history if you want to understand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:42"> where the mental framework</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:45"> came from for the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:48"> this uh research work in the 60s and 70s it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:51"> came out of the mostly out of the radar work</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:54"> which was jointly between</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:42:57">uk and the uk yeah i'm</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:0"> primarily at mit but started</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:3"> off in in britain and there's a great story there's some great</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:6">books read about it and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:9">a talk that you had with a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:12">on youtube that where you talk</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:15"> about that i've got a couple of talks about that i've written</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:18"> some papers yeah about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:21"> it also another monumental</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:24"> effort was the manhattan</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:27"> project</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:30">so most people aren't who don't the manhattan project they spent</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:33"> you think about what the us was doing in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:36">world war ii the manhattan project itself</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:39"> cost more than one percent</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:42"> of all of the defense funding</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:45">war ii so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:48"> it involved about 800</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:51"> 000 people it involved</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:54"> making new cities yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:43:57"> because they went wherever they could find cooling water and they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:0">built new cities they brought in school teachers they bought</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:3"> in doctors they built entire cities they built</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:6">plants of acres and acres they didn't know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:9"> the best way to refine</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:12"> get refined uh material</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:15"> for the for the bombs there are four</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:18">known ways and general grove said well let's let's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:21"> just go all out on all four of them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:24">and he was the he was the head of this project</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:27"> and so his history is worthwhile</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:30"> reading to read about uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:33"> you know something at scale that scale</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:36"> yeah yeah and the same thing is and i've used</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:39"> this many times in talks is my background partly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:42"> was in uh molecular</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:45"> biology and you have my favorite book up there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:48"> yeah yeah behind you yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:51">that's my favorite edition of the book the third is oh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:54"> cool the red one the right one not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:44:57">one that's i think that was the sweet spot</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:0"> and uh they haven't read it yet</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:3">little bit big one of the best</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:6"> reads ever yeah it's about a thousand pages long</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:9">one week one week of reading</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:12">you're in uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:15"> so if you come out of that background computers are</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:18"> tiny tiny tiny little things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:21"> and systems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:24"> are even the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:27"> largest human-built systems are small compared</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:30"> to what biology pulls</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:33">off and of course a lot of the stuff in biology</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:36"> uh can't be applied to computing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:39"> just because of the nature</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:42"> of the way the materials themselves work and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:45"> what things are like at sub microscopic</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:48"> scales but a lot of it does</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:51"> and another book that was very influential</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:54"> was uh christopher alexander's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:45:57">book which is his phd</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:0"> thesis called notes on a synthesis of form</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:3"> yes yeah he repudiated this book</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:6"> because he got hippified uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:9"> after he went to berkeley went into a different</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:12">subsequently wasn't that bad</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:15"> but this phd thesis book was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:18"> really interesting and his</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:21"> his main example</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:24"> done after this fascinating</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:27">discourse of how you think about complexity</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:30"> and design and the conflicts</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:33"> and finding them and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:36"> modulizing things and it's just great it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:39"> great today it's just a great book i have it here</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:42"> somewhere yeah but the end</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:45"> the the end example of it is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:48"> taking the uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:51">new uh a new</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:54"> uh village in india from</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:46:57"> scratch so it's going to have a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:0">population of a few thousand people and it has</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:3"> you know a thousand or two constraints</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:6"> of every different</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:9"> kind in the thing and how are you going to design this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:12">and this is great because this is not a typical</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:15"> if you're looking for computing stuff</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:18"> uh people are start taught programming</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:21">examples that are nothing like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:24"> or should be nothing like anything they're going to do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:27"> for real yeah yeah yeah that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:30">much better off dealing with us</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:33">a live running system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:36"> like say small talk yeah or even</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:39"> javascript although the it's so ugly in there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:42"> but it's live so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:45">system that you can look at</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:48"> you're much better off learning how to program in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:51"> the context of the system because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:54"> then you start having to sift into</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:47:57"> your mind yeah it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:0">because you have to to realize</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:3"> that if you change something you can break it while running</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:6"> so it you know you can do you can learn a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:9"> little bit of driving a car driving around</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:12"> a field or a parking lot yeah with no cars</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:15"> on it but really driving is learning how to drive on a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:18">street where you have stop signs and you have that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:21"> there's all these things you have to worry about and it's very confusing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:24"> and the process of learning how to drive</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:27">is learning how to create things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:30"> in your mind for dealing with all</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:33"> of the heuristics that have to be done in real time but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:36"> so design is again one of these thinking skills</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:39"> and part of it part</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:42">skill is how to hold</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:45"> in your mind simultaneously</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:48"> uh things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:51"> that conflict or seem to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:54">rather than trying to resolve them too early</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:48:57">and i forget whether i did it in this talk or not but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:0">about you know our ideas made</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:6">or like categories where they can't interpenetrate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:9"> or</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:12"> they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:15"> hello</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:18">i think i lost i think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:21"> we lost yeah oh we lost you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:24"> the last yeah 30 seconds chris</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:27"> from my point yeah so the question is are ideas made out</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:30"> of matter yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:33"> so one idea can't is basically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:36"> antagonistic to another or rd is made out of radiation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:39"> so you can shine lots lots of colored</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:42"> lights at a wall and they superpose</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:45">so you can see all of them there they don't interfere</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:48"> with each other you see interesting combinations</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:51"> and that's one of the states you have to get into</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:54"> when you design or when you think about anything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:49:57"> when you're dealing with complexity</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:0">the last thing you should try to do is solve a problem</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:3"> the number one thing you have to do when you're dealing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:6"> with complexity is to try and find out what's going on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:9">yeah try to find a way of looking at what's going</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:12">yeah the problem the problem finding instead of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:15"> the problem solving grinding is and that was the big</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:18"> one of the big things i got in arpa yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:21"> they realized the problem finding is that and so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:24"> when you get to software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:27">and think about what's the software possible the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:30"> pro software process is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:33"> trying to deal with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:36">e kinds of things that alexander was dealing with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:39"> and the first thing you have to have is some</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:42"> understanding of what the meaning is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:45"> before you start trying to to optimize so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:48"> alex so if you look at alexander the i should</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:51"> have brought brought the book</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:50:54">i have it in my room i don't have it here but yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:0">i have it here</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:3">oh my</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:6"> god</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:9"> this is london so i don't have my real</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:12"> library here but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:18">i have about a thousand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:21"> whoops i have about a thousand books here</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:24"> just just a few and i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:27"> need some yeah so this book</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:30"> yeah you can't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:33"> uh praise it too highly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:36">eah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:39"> i read it it's really interesting it opens your</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:42"> mind yeah so here's his final</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:45"> design of the village</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:48">uh but of the most interesting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:51"> things is how careful he is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:51:57">yeah so appendix</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:0"> one is the worked example where he</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:3"> looks at hundreds of constraints</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:6"> and tries to put them down very carefully</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:9"> if you look at the requirements and of course</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:12"> the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:15"> real question is are you actually saying anything when</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:18">requirement down in a lot in a natural language</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:21"> so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:24"> the belief we had when we started thinking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:27"> about this stuff and you bet again</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:30"> the arpa community</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:33"> invented computer-aided design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:36"> and general motors</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:39"> was doing also doing a project but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:42"> i think was most strongly invented</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:45"> in sketchpad by ivan sutherland</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:48"> and then especially by his brother bert</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:51"> and others at lincoln lab and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:54"> mit had a huge numerically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:52:57">tool project</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:0"> that was also about computer-aided design so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:3"> the idea is you and a lot of the computer graphics that was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:6">then was to try and see whether you could define</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:9"> shapes using</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:12"> graphics that a program</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:15"> could look at the shape and see what a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:18"> five-axis milling machine</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:21"> would have to do to make that shape out of a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:24"> piece of metal and so there's a lot of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:27"> that and of course the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:30"> shape that you want like when you make a flange</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:33"> yes uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:36"> that flange might not be strong enough</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:39"> in its yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:42"> in its simple flangeness</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:45"> yeah you might have to put a fillet</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:48"> you know which is extra metal yeah to make it stronger</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:51"> on the bend part so you can think of that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:54"> as something that would be revealed</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:53:57"> in simulation so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:0"> sketchpad when you designed something in sketchpad</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:3"> you didn't just you weren't just doing a drawing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:6"> you would get something that because you had all the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:9">constraints and the simulation to see what yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:12"> so and and going back sorry to interrupt</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:15"> you because we're running out of time and i have a bunch of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:18"> questions and i want i want to go to one at least one</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:21">questions from the people i don't want to be the only one asking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:24"> but um you know you mentioned small talk and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:27"> you know that amazing uh system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:30">dan ingalls and adele goldberg</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:33">other people and you know working is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:36"> with small talk as you said it's like working in a living</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:39">system where you are changing it while the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:42">system runs but also one of the main</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:45"> features of small talk is the immediate feedback and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:48"> you you know brett victor he he gave a great talk about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:51"> immediate feedback and how important that is to design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:54">stuff to work with staff so how do you see</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:54:57"> immediate feedback in in software development how important</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:0">you think i think you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:3">put into my talk</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:6"> session i just did another talk</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:9"> okay okay no but you didn't talk about immediate feedback</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:12"> in your talk yeah but i might have thrown in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:15"> uh four stages</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:18"> yes yes uh the tinkering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:21">engineering followers that's right and i was going</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:24">you forgot art why you didn't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:27"> put art in there also oh it all</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:30"> is oh okay okay because what art</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:33"> art the the greek</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:36"> word uh art comes from the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:39"> latin ours and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:42"> the the greek root which goes back even earlier</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:45"> is techni okay so technology</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:48"> literally means anything that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:51"> humans make anything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:54"> okay so what what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:55:57"> happened is in the 19th century uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:0"> painting and sculpture took the term</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:3">art oh it used to be called the fine</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:6"> arts okay okay let's see i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:9"> see yeah that's like uh it's like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:12"> uh a.i used to mean something different than stuff today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:15"> that's right yeah yeah object oriented</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:18"> used to mean something new today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:21"> so people people do this but in fact</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:24"> in many of the presentations i do i show</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:27">these four guys sitting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:30"> the larger context around them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:33">is art because it's everything everything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:36">that's that's why artificial</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:39">means something special</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:42"> yeah doesn't mean</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:45"> something bad perfectly means</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:48"> something that's made</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:51"> okay is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:54"> intelligence that is made that is made yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:56:57"> so yeah so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:0"> uh so if you look at those four things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:3"> uh and the point i make is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:6"> in modern times you want to be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:9"> in the sweet spot at the center</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:12">ight yeah that combines diagrams</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:15"> yeah so you want to choose when am i going to tinker</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:18">scientist tinker</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:21"> engineers tinker mathematicians tinker so you have to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:24">tinker that's right yeah you have to be you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:27"> have to make things principled it's not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:30"> just an engineering but uh like i have also</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:33"> have a degree in pure math so if you're</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:36"> going to make a mathematical proof it's at</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:39"> least as engineered as a bridges</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:42">it has to have that integrity</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:45">connectiveness in order to be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:48"> considered a good proof yeah so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:51"> yeah and then science has this extra</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:54"> important way of being a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:57:57">between what's inside of our</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:0"> heads and the kinds of phenomena that we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:3"> deal with out there so it's it's a meta</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:6"> thing that's much more complex than the rest of these</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:9"> ideas and much more powerful</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:12"> so so if you try and apply that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:15">map software into it it's usually</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:18"> way off uh yeah yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:21">bit and wearing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:24"> uh hardly any math no real</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:27"> science so if you try</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:30"> and map that into some modern system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:33"> that you might try to make</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:36">one of the number one things i think anybody would do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:39"> and certainly we did</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:42"> what we could do back in the 70s</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:45">was to say yeah we have to do cad and sin</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:48"> you have to be able to do computer-aided design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:51"> which means we have to be able to continue it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:54">graphics that we have to continually develop</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:58:57"> the thing we have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:0"> in mind so we can at least fasten on the meaning</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:3"> of it so the compute</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:6"> the cad part is meaning it's semantics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:9"> and the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:12"> simulation part is because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:15"> beyond a few sentences</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:18"> you shouldn't trust 20</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:21"> or 30 or 100 requirements yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:24"> that's right without debugging that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:27"> that's that's something we do actually in software development</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:30"> with testing you know there is a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:33">test-driven development i don't know if you heard about it uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:36"> yeah sure but that the problem with that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:39"> is that you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:42"> if it were good let's let's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:45">you're doing it well yeah and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:48"> in theory you should be able to run</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:51">uh you should be able to on a supercomputer you should be able</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:54">bring uh the thing to life right if</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="1:59:57">is covering everything uh the truth</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:0">at's right some parts of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:3"> it yes so the biggest problem with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:6">want to have tests but the problem</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:9"> is it loses the larger integrity</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:12"> of what we need in designing a system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:15">that's right yeah so i think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:18"> it's it's not that you don't want to have tests but i think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:21"> trying to start with tests is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:24"> and again</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:27"> sometimes i throw in a lump of clay yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:30"> yeah you did can you i did okay so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:33"> it's pretty hard to debug a lump of clay into</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:36"> a really nice piece of sculpture</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:39"> yeah yeah and but you got to test</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:42">everything continuously right yeah you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:45"> have to have a vision of what it is that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:48"> you do yes but starting starting with the test</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:51"> it's like thinking about the meanings first instead</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:54"> of thinking about the no no it's it's thinking about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:0:57"> criteria the question is is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:0">you know the way to think about the meanings</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:3">is to think about the simplest thing that is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:6"> like the thing that you want</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:9"> that gets you no so starting off uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:12"> uh asking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:15"> about bathroom facilities</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:18"> is not going to lead you to a village design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:21"> no of course so what you need to think about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:24"> is what is the simplest thing that's like a village okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:27"> okay let's see that gives you the system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:30">okay that gives you many of the main things that the system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:33"> has to have and then that's not going to be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:36"> uh nearly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:39"> detailed enough or scaled</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:42"> enough but it has its it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:45"> a vision of the whole yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:48">i think we don't have too much time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:51">i'm sorry to interrupt you again i think we need like six hours</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:54">three ten days to talk about everything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:1:57">uys are organizing you you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:0"> know too much alan you know too much it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:3"> difficult it's difficult too</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:6"> but let me at least ask you one question</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:9">from the audience um we have one from maximo</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:12"> prieto he he admires you because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:15">and he his question</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:18"> is what can we as simple programmers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:21"> not the owners of the business do to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:24">provoke a change in the way we are forced to program</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:27"> today i think we deserve to program in a better</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:30"> way yeah so well i think that's the big problem when i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:33"> was a professional programmer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:36"> you know it was somebody else's machine somebody</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:39"> else's software somebody else's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:42"> problem so i was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:45"> you know at the bottom of this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:48"> of this machinery on on the other hand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:51"> what we did have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:54">lot of this was in machine code</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:2:57"> but the nice thing is uh the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:0"> machine code systems back then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:3">many of them had really good macro systems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:6"> and so anybody</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:9"> who wanted to survive back then and particularly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:12"> with regard to this question</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:15"> the first thing we would do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:18">a bunch of us who are involved in these projects</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:21"> is to spend a fair amount of our time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:24"> each week often each day</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:27"> working with each other on macros</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:30"> that would give us higher level</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:33">blocks so basically programming language</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:36">dsl basically making</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:42">because otherwise you're at</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:45"> the you're in the wrong place</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:48"> for uh changing your mind so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:51">about one of the ways of thinking about this thing is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:54"> uh and certainly was the way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:3:57">people approached it and the arpa community really approached</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:0"> it was let's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:3"> admit that human beings are terrible thinkers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:6"> that means we are terrible thinkers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:9"> what can we do about that well it means that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:12">most of our ideas are going to be mediocre down to bad</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:15"> let's just put that right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:21">hat's right let's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:24">as a you know that's the yeah let's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:27"> face it we still want to make progress so what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:30"> can we do well what we need to do is to be able to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:33"> fix things so we can change our</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:36"> mind and what are those things we can do well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:39">starting to happen back when i was a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:42"> uh when i was a programmer like one</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:45"> of the machines i programmed on back then did</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:48"> not have any index registers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:51">really basic yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:54"> but you don't need an index register you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:4:57"> can go in and modify addresses that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:0"> what index registers are is late</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:3"> binding something</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:6"> yeah give you both safety and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:9"> a way of changing your mind more easily</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:12"> every time you use a an indirect pointer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:15"> you are allowing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:18"> allowing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:21"> the possibility of sticking something in between</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:24"> that's right to change that that the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:27"> other way would be static but in that way it's dynamic</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:30">it later on yeah idea</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:33"> is virtually nothing that's important</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:36"> should you know the actual address of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:39"> and one other thing and i've</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:42">this you know long ago a big</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:45">although it wasn't nearly as big as</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:48"> it as it should have been became a really big</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:51"> revelation later on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:54"> but the the file system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:5:57"> uh on the borough's beach</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:0"> uh rose 220</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:3"> in the air force so there were no operating systems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:6">then and they wanted to exchange</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:9"> tapes with files on them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:12"> and the way they hit on doing this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:15"> and i don't know who did it but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:18"> the idea was that the and these</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:21"> piles were long because i won't go into the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:24"> weirdness of the tape drives back then but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:27"> so the front part of this was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:30">bunch of a vec you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:33"> an array yeah of pointers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:36"> further on down in the file</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:39"> into the second part of the file which is a bunch of borrows</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:42"> 220 programs</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:45"> machine codes yeah those are machine code programs</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:48"> yeah and then the last part which could be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:51"> the size of the rest of the tape were all</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:54"> the data records and the way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:6:57"> you way you uh read a tape is the tape</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:0"> always got read into the same place in memory</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:3"> and the only thing that was standardized was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:6"> what the index positions in this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:9"> first array actually meant</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:12"> like so it was basically a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:15"> class with messages pointing to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:18">methods basically that yeah yeah and i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:21">real you know and it was great</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:24"> we we called that data driven programming back then</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:27"> yeah okay because what what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:30">want to do is write your own code</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:33">to understand what you needed to do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:36"> was just understand you know if you want to find record</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:39"> 150 and of course there are different</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:42"> sizes but it didn't matter because the code</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:45"> there knew what size these guys were it knew</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:48"> whether where the data is right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:51"> so nothing nothing was fixed but it was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:54">dynamically decided by the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:7:57"> code yeah i got there in 1961 and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:0"> that was that was already in place</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:3"> yeah wow yeah so that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:6"> was how you did things on the on the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:9"> borough's 220 for air</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:12"> training command records</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:15"> and but you know if you look at the principle</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:18"> behind it yes it's like the principle of oop</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:21">that's right basically your abstracting and sketchpad</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:24"> which was done about the same time had</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:27"> the same idea sketchpad object</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:30"> was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:33"> mostly a bunch of indirect points of the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:36"> thing called display and sketchpad</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:39"> was just a pointer at a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:42">specific position in this data</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:45"> record for the thing and you just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:48"> jumped in direct through it and it would take you to the procedure</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:51"> that was most well suited for displaying</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:54"> that particular kind of thing there so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:8:57"> even though in the sketchpad those things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:0"> were more like prototypes than that classes is that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:3">i don't know if you look if you read the thesis</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:6"> yeah everybody should because no he</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:9">had uh even something like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:12"> inheritance oh really well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:15"> no no it was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:18"> sketch paper they were not prototypes like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:21"> that you cloned because i thought that they were like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:24">cloned to have another one</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:27"> not like no no okay okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:30"> okay so but anyway once</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:33"> you know i saw a sketch pad</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:36"> a few years later in 66 in my first</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:39">in grad school along with simula and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:42"> it was having seen</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:45"> this this idea like five or six times</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:48">a row because the borough's b5000</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:51"> had a variant of it also and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:54"> in some ways even more sophisticated</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:9:57">and i was just dumb you know it just took me</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:0"> four five six times to see the thing then finally</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:3"> error is holy this is really an enormous</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:6">good idea it is actually</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:9"> cosmically important so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:12"> let's make it scale now that's what you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:15"> did basically yeah so once</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:18">course once i saw it was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:21">out to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:27">yes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:30"> you know and again again it's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:33"> it's pragmatics that hurts</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:36"> the idea like it's the simplest idea</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:39">that there is that if you have a computer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:42"> you can do any computation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:45"> you can represent any data structure</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:48"> yeah so it should be a complete</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:51"> instant</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:54"> deduction that oh if i want to make</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:10:57"> a computing system i should just make virtual computers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:0"> because that will allow me</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:3"> to define anything else and i have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:6"> a universal way of doing it and people still don't use</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:9"> what they call oop today to do that yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:12"> they just can't see it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:15">here's something about a computer even today when they're</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:18"> a lot smaller that with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:21"> where the pragmatic reality of the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:24"> computer you know contrasted</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:27">virtually or what it is semantically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:30"> yeah yeah so what's once you can</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:33"> move from pregnant so one of the ways of looking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:36"> at is one of the biggest problems in programming in every</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:39"> era and i don't even know what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:42">decade this is for me i've encountered them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:45"> but it's going to be 60 60 years pretty soon</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:48"> six years next year</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:51"> six decades wow but in every year</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:54"> it's the same thing with the same problem</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:11:57">get caught up with the pragmatics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:0"> yeah with the immediate with the immediate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:3">instead of the yeah and the number one</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:6">optimization and pragmatics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:9">hat on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:12"> and we can all do it once you put that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:15">on it is almost impossible to design after</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:18"> that's right completely incompatible</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:21">idea it's very difficult</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:24"> to change it it's very difficult to say</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:27"> to understand that you did something wrong it's very difficult to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:30"> see that you see that you did something wrong</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:33"> so yeah so for me uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:36"> you know there are a lot of different ways of using a dynamic system</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:39"> and it depends on the personality for me</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:42"> i like to do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:45"> when i was i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:48"> like to do this idea what's the smallest</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:51"> village and i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:54"> just do that from scratch okay even</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:12:57"> in small talk in small talk i wouldn't go in and define a lot</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:0">classes or any of that stuff i'd use the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:3"> the thing and called workspace which</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:6"> had grass space yeah in it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:9"> and i would use a rebel with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:12">i say like a rebel but with asteroids</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:15"> because you know in a rebel you're like working</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:18"> in one line but in a workspace you have the whole thing yeah yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:21">you can have many many things in there and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:24"> it has its own uh address space</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:27">so what i would do is just do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:30"> a complete system the smallest thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:33"> that's a village and everything i mean i would do the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:36"> loop i do the user interface i do every little thing the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:39">could do trying to get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:42"> into my head what the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:45"> uh primary focus of the design</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:48">because the important thing about what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:51"> what oop is at least the oops stuff that we did</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:54"> is that it's a module</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:13:57"> system for us encapsulation</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:0">percent yeah yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:3"> yeah it's not there uh you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:6"> occasionally you might have to fall back and define something like a data</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:9"> structure but and when you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:12"> do that you're actually recording danger</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:15"> basically it's a module system and the problem with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:18">system is it doesn't tell you what modules</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:21">hould come up with right the module</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:24"> system just gives you a way of protecting one set of things from</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:28"> another</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:31"></subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:34"></subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:37"></subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:40">the whole front part of it is how to think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:42"> in terms of modules and what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:45"> to do in his his thesis program which</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:48"> he wrote in fortran was a thing that attempted</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:51"> to find you the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:54"> best set of modules out of a complex</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:14:57">set of constraints still a good idea yeah yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:0"> but basically and to me that's getting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:3"> the meaning of the thing down so to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:6"> me meetings dominate and then you have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:9"> this interesting thing in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:12"> most programming languages today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:15"> is there's nothing that because of this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:18"> fact that you can use in directions</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:21"> that you can have a set of meanings</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:24"> and they might include some tests</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:27"> but if you think of the uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:30"> yeah suppose it's just something like sorting yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:33"> and so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:36"> the you know the the meaning</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:39"> for sorting is that the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:42"> output is a permutation of the input yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:45"> that obeys some some relationship</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:48"> and prolog will even uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:51"> sort for you just on that basis</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:54"> does it really does it the hard way but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:15:57"> it it gives you the and of course</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:0">permutation is not easy thing to describe</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:3"> it's a trickier kind of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:6"> thing but uh but there are 50</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:9"> known ways to sort oh sort yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:12"> and they all have different uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:15"> pragmatic ranges</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:18">and they have different conditions and so you can imagine</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:21">if you're going to do a sorting thing you have something that's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:24"> going to protect the meaning</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:27">so you can grind let it grind if you want</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:30"> yeah yeah or it could be a really simple sorting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:33">program that you're sure really does sort</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:36"> yeah maybe or maybe we combined with tests</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:39">because both of these things but you keep that over on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:42"> the side and then on the on the right hand side of the page</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:45"> you write down your 50 sorting routines</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:48"> and you head them with the conditions</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:51">under</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:54"> which they should be invoked so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:16:57"> they look this is just what we did when we were writing macros</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:0">force that's right basically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:3">inputs oh this is an enormous</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:6"> array so uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:9"> i better not do a bubble sort here</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:12"> or one of the side conditions</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:15"> here is uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:18"> this uh this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:21"> system has to be uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:24"> easily updatable</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:27"> so you might want to use a b tree</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:30"> right you know you don't want to use a hard</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:33"> array you might be better off going to a b tree</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:36"> which gives you incremental updating</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:39"> on the thing and still gives you pretty fast sorting</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:42"> yeah yeah of course small talk has any number of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:45"> these yes different uh kinds of things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:48">and then your module</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:51"> is which is called sort</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:54"> is the thing that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:17:57">done the cad sim part</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:0">fab part</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:3"> is all the all these</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:6">routines and the rules should be you should be able</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:9"> to turn off any and all of the optimizations in any part</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:12"> of the system and just have the system slow down</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:15"> that's right but still working if and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:18">that isn't true then you've done</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:21"> a bad design period</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:24">that's simple yeah you're just playing at being an</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:27"> engineer yeah in computing or you're just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:30"> flying at being a programmer even</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:33"> yeah but going to to the last question</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:36"> so what what would you tell to a programmer</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:39"> today to you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:42">are working what can we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:45"> do you know a tiny people can we</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:48"> do something or not i mean</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:51">because as you've mentioned many times complexity</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:54"> currently in in our you know development software right now</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:18:57">is so complex uh you know working</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:0"> doing web application is so much</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:3"> difficult today that doing applications like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:6"> 20 years ago yeah but so okay it's in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:9"> some cases you're just not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:12"> going to beat the system yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:15"> that's that's some cases just that because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:18"> the the what's imposed</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:21"> on you is just too much however</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:24"> like suppose you are doing web stuff yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:27"> uh so the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:30"> the first thing to notice is that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:33"> underneath javascript</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:36"> is a dynamic</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:39"> language subset of javascript</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:45">can be used as a real</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:48"> target from uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:51"> other language development yeah yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:54"> because uh you know there's a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:19:57"> good garbage collector yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:0"> yeah and quite a bit of it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:3">lacks a couple of reflection</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:6">but i i advise people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:9">in javascript to do a thing that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:12">ago which was to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:15"> make a preprocessor for javascript</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:18">yeah there are</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:21"> many there are many things like that today yeah it just parses</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:24"> so you feed javascript to it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:27"> and it writes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:30"> things in a way that uh what you do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:33"> is reflective because it adds</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:36"> that stuff in there that's right okay okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:39"> so the basic idea is that for almost any</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:42"> programming language uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:45"> the chances that it's going to really fit what you need is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:48"> low and the whole point we do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:51">should be open and with all the source</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:54"> code available like small talk that helps</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:20:57"> that helps a lot yeah i'm sorry sorry sorry</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:0"> to interrupt you yeah but in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:3"> but you know small talk i don't advocate small talk today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:6"> because it was the world's greatest thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:9"> really in the 70s but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:12"> uh you know what's</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:15">mall talk today is how well it compares</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:18"> with more modern things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:21"> but that's because the more modern things are not very good</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:24"> small talk is not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:27"> what i would use if i was going to do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:30"> a major project today i would</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:33"> make i would do what we did you know the other thing about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:36"> that community back then is uh it didn't bother</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:39"> us to do major tools yeah that's right sometimes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:42">our part of our skill set so yes something that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:45"> today we're still difficult it's like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:48">we build tools for all the other that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:51"> for other people but not for us uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:54">it's that but it's also just people not learning their</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:21:57"> field yeah most people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:0"> are are happy to get paid for doing x</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:3"> yeah and uh that's not very professional</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:6"> so if you're professional you learn</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:9">field and our our field</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:12"> is primarily</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:15"> there because software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:18"> was invented so we didn't</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:21"> have to put up with a fixed set of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:24"> facilities from hardware yeah let's think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:27"> about what that means it means that if you have software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:30"> you should never have to put up a fixed</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:33"> set of anything well if you're</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:36"> just treating uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:39">you're treating really badly design software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:42"> most of the time as though it's some sort of machine</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:45"> that you can't do anything with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:48"> so this indirection principle yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:51"> so i i suggest just being subversive</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:54">you basically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:22:57"> you start working on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:0"> a much better way</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:3"> of doing little parts of things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:6"> and at some point you can</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:9"> uh see if you can attract more</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:12"> people to doing this you gotta</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:15"> you know you you do it over lunch with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:18"> beer you gradually</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:21"> but but before you do that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:24"> it helps you know the first ones you do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:27"> you're not going to want to use as tools</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:30">yeah but you have to get started</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:33"> and if you are going to try and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:36"> get around the problem that we have today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:39"> then you're going to have to be a lot more skilled</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:42"> than most programmers are</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:45">yeah so i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:48"> like i said i was uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:51"> kind of a standard program because i was used</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:54"> programming to work my way through college so i didn't think of it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:23:57"> as a central thing at all</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:0"> i was i had a got a math degree in a biology</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:3">and i programmed uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:6"> to pay my tuition yeah but when i when</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:9"> i got into grad school i was in this research</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:12"> community that was really serious</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:15"> about big things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:18"> and so but they also gave</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:21"> the grad students a lot of leeway</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:24"> so i had the time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:27"> and the freedom and the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:30"> resources there to just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:33"> learn a whole bunch of things that if i'd</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:36"> been more of a professional earlier on i would</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:39">idn't know how to do a language i didn't know how to do an operating</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:42"> system i didn't know how to do a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:45"> system even okay doing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:48"> programs and uh you know and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:51"> but a couple of years later</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:54"> uh i was more</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:24:57"> skilled on this and i understood</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:0">process of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:3"> because that graduate school</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:6">arpa</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:9">did not require</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:12"> people to do individual</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:15"> theses although usually</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:18">ou did but usually</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:21"> they allow you they gave you the freedom to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:24"> do whatever you thought it was it was in a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:27"> big context and so the uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:30"> you could work on big problems and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:33"> you know write up the first two</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:36">a big problem if that was good</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:39"> they'd give you a phd if you worked on smaller problems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:42">they wanted you to finish something in two years</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:45"> but they didn't care what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:48"> they wanted was two years of world-class</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:51"> work to get to give out a phd and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:54"> you didn't have to write little papers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:25:57"> with your professor's name on them or any of that stuff</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:0">okay they didn't want you to write papers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:3"> well completely different to what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:6">oday what they want you to do is to write a thesis</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:9"> right that's the whole reason</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:12">grad school it's not to write papers that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:15"> they want you to do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:18"> uh world-class stuff for two</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:21">row and write it up and out you go</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:24"> so i was in grad school for two and a half</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:27">years and uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:30"> and i wasn't i was not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:33"> nearly the fastest fastest one out</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:36"> during my year uh in that community</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:39"> was john warnock who</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:42"> is famous for doing adobe oh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:45"> okay but john was a uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:48"> was a staff program he had a math</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:51"> degree had a master's in math and he</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:54">working had a wife and a kid and he was working as a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:26:57"> staff programmer for the university</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:0"> and one of the kids</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:3"> on the grads uh grad school</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:6"> students went to him and asked them a question and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:9"> john saw a big answer to it that happened</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:12"> to be the first really good way to do continuous</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:15"> tone 3d graphics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:18"> he was the inventor of at that time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:21"> of that and so his</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:24"> he was a grad student less than six months</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:27"> and his thesis</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:30"> was actually 16 pages of text</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:33"> and nine pages of pictures</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:36"> bingo out he went</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:39"> and falcon is a multi-millionaire because of adobe</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:42">that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:45"> uh so that was a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:48"> good way of doing things back then because it it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:51"> emphasized not what you're doing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:54">school school was basically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:27:57"> something that was a support system for</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:0"> doing the kinds of things you were going to do after school</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:3"> that was the way they thought of it and um</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:6"> so the so the main thing about it is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:9"> uh there was a lot of scrambling but there was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:12"> not a lot of competition yeah that's right because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:15"> these are grants for were for entire</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:18">departments and so the professors weren't competing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:21">the professors didn't have to worry about tenure</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:24"> graduate students weren't competing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:27">was a completely different environment</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:30"> today but i like i like what you said that uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:33">should be subversive to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:36">that's what that's what software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:39"> is that's right that's right that's science</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:42">the big problem with it is bad software is subversive</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:45"> in really terrible ways</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:48"> like the like the pollution</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:51"> that i did and yeah yeah so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:54"> if you think about it uh you know in medicine</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:28:57">you can you're allowed to put on a band-aid</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:0"> without a doctor's uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:3"> degree but not allowed</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:6"> to do a hard operation without</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:9"> being certified and nothing like that exists in software</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:12"> and so forth yeah yeah yeah and and if when you get</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:15">out of of college in in medicine you have to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:18">stay like four years in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:21">stuff you have to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:24"> learn yeah yeah and so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:27"> uh so to go to a serious</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:30"> subject it's if you know if you know about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:33"> the boeing 737 max</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:36"> yeah yeah yeah so my one of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:39">is a pilot and he used to to pilot</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:42"> that one so yeah so there you have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:45"> an artificial intelligence that knows nothing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:48">doing and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:51"> uh it was allowed to be made</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:54"> right we know there are people on board</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:29:57"> it doesn't know anything about flying</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:0">because if you're at an altitude of a couple hundred feet</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:3"> you don't correct for a stall by diving</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:6">the plane at the ground that's right every pilot</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:9"> so so uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:12"> boeing allowed people to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:15"> make a technological device</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:18"> that uh should be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:21"> called in artificial intelligence</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:24"> because it does things that humans do</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:27"> and uh but it has no</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:30">certification the people would</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:33"> have no certification and so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:36"> none of none of that is being</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:39">seriously in medicine the number</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:42"> the first thing in the hippocratic oath</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:45"> for doctors says above</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:48"> all do no harm that's right that's right yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:51">ave that those kind of things no such thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:54"> no no and the equivalent in engineering</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:30:57"> is the bridge must not fall</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:0"> the plane must not crash</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:3">and engineering is now starting to violate that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:6"> yeah they let that plane</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:9">there's no way you should ever let a plane</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:12">right and so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:15"> what's happening is this pop culture</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:18"> amateur and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:21"> i should i i like the term amateur because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:24">lover okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:27"> but basically people who are not skilled enough</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:30"> for the responsibilities they have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:33"> are and may not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:36"> realize it may not have the faintest</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:39"> idea they may think that's right safety bug one</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:42"> bubble sort program they know how to program</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:45"> and they're being hired right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:48">and writing gazillions</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:51"> of terrible code much of which is going</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:54"> to be is almost impossible</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:31:57"> to deal with you know so i i say</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:0"> well this is like a big fire</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:3">so in a big fire you have to decide what parts you're</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:6"> going to just learn let burn out</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:9"> and other parts you have to isolate by driving</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:12"> okay through it and so forth and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:15">think about what software is it's exactly the same</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:18"> idea right you have to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:21"> uh the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:24"> much of the stuff look</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:27"> just to retreat back to something that should never have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:30">happen is the way the web and the web</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:33">was done i was i was going to ask</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:36">question because there is one number one</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:39"> the number one telling thing to me is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:42"> virtually no student i've met in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:45"> undergraduate or graduate school at ucla</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:48"> can tell me what's wrong with the web</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:51"> in the web browser</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:54"> that means uh the education</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:32:57">is completely failed yeah because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:0"> they only teach you what we use right now and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:3"> know what used to be or the principles or the problems</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:6"> full circle to where we started which is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:9">people are projecting their beliefs on the world</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:12"> like one of the most pernicious beliefs in computing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:15"> is uh simple</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:18"> darwinism yeah we must</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:21"> have the best stuff in the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:27">and i used to give lots of talks until i gave up</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:30">showing stuff from the past that's infinitely better than the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:33"> stuff today no because they think darwinism</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:36">just fits</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:39"> yeah that's right if you have a stupid environment</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:42"> you're going to wind up with with a</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:45">stupid result of evolution and that's what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:48"> we've got remember the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:51"> really important thing is that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:54"> people were probably as clever from</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:33:57">the iq standpoint 100 000 years ago</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:0"> as they are today yeah right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:3"> but uh the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:6"> so uh ignorance resembles</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:12">you can be clever as hell but if you don't know anything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:15"> you might not be clever enough to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:18">around that and liam my grandfather</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:21"> my grandfather used to say that it is worse an ignorant</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:24"> person that a dumb person because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:27">is ignorant doesn't know it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:30"> and that makes more more harm than</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:33"> somebody that yeah yeah if you have a smart</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:36">hey know it and they don't yeah so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:39"> and that's basically i think computing attracts</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:42"> that kind of personality there</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:45"> used to be and also it attracts a personality</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:48"> that tends not to like humans very much</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:51"> they're more common</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:54"> well i think it's because uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:34:57"> you know many people in computing uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:0"> have asperger's i have a bit myself</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:3">and it's comforting to deal with machinery</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:6"> yeah yeah because you don't have to negotiate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:9">with it yeah that's right that's right and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:12"> it doesn't have all of these you don't have to be polite</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:15"> yeah yeah uh you don't have to try and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:18">figure out what the the other person</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:21"> is thinking about you don't have to do all of these things yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:24"> yeah and so the thing that saved me</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:27"> was doing theater whereas</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:30"> theater is the perfect thing for</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:33"> a person who is uncomfortable around</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:36">people because you have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:39"> to because it's theater is basically the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:42"> an anthropological way of getting at the anthropology</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:45"> of humanity</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:48">interesting yeah because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:51">understand why theater can work</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:54"> if you think about what it is and think about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:35:57"> why people can wind up crying</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:0"> in a completely artificial situation yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:3"> okay and how to arrange things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:6">happens you understand a lot</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:9">if you're still uncomfortable with them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:12"> but you understand more about what's going on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:15"> and you also have the understanding</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:18">needed to design a decent user interface</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:21"> if you don't have that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:24"> uh the user interfaces you'll make are hopeless</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:27"> yeah and you'll retreat into</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:30">world of simple machinery</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:33">simple yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:36"> so it's very possible to for people to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:39"> create these bubbles that they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:42"> live in that really have nothing to do certainly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:45"> if you look at uh the software i've looked</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:48"> at it's too much software to make a blanket statement</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:51">world now but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:54"> the software that i've looked at in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:36:57"> mainly in very large companies and in</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:0">the government uh indicates</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:3"> that hardly anybody</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:6"> who is good at design was ever in the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:9">process because the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:12"> objective is to get things done quickly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:15"> on time and in budget not</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:18"> worry about the future and that's where we get all the trash</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:21"> in the pacific ocean from that's right it's all about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:24"> getting the bottle of water to you quickly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:27">cheaply and who cares where the bottle</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:30">afterwards that's right that's right that's basically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:33"> why i use that analogy to start off</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:36"> my talk that it's it works very well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:39"> uh unfortunately software is much more invisible</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:42"> than the trash in the pacific ocean</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:45"> because you can't take pictures</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:48"> of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:51"> you know gazillions of terabytes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:54"> of crap</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:37:57"> you can get an idea by looking at</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:0"> a company that should be doing a lot better</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:3"> uh like google</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:6"> and ask the question</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:9">how is it possible that when you retrieve something</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:12">oogle that it's not showing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:15">summaries of those web</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:18">just picking random</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:21"> stuff out of the web pages but it has to index the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:24"> web pages to be able to do the retrieval at all</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:27"> so why aren't they indexing the retr uh the web</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:30"> pages are about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:33"> and putting that in there is meta information</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:36">why after all of these year now of course i've asked</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:39"> my friends at google many times</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:42"> you guys are doing all of this stuff you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:45">got ai chips to do this and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:48">but you can't do the most elementary thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:51"> in your primary product</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:54"> to make it any better than it was uh 25</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:38:57">years ago right so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:0"> what's the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:3"></subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:6"></subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:9"> problem</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:12"> can you hear me</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:24">hello</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:27"> hello can't hear you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:36">see i was complaining about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:39"> the web and it took</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:51">revenge</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:54"> hello hernan</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:39:57"> yes can you hear me now yes</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:0"> yes no i don't know what happened something was wrong</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:3">with my well i was i was complaining about the web</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:6"> and it took revenge yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:9"> so what i i was asking you what did i say</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:12"> when you told them that when you asked them that well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:15"> you know if i i haven't tried it on</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:18">recently but i used to every couple of months i'd send</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:21">norvig an email he's a good guy</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:24">charge of all this stuff and well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:27"> he went to the basically the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:30"> the one of the ways of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:33"> looking at it and you could ask them why</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:36">the things that really did happen</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:39"> and i think it has to do with</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:42"> how school once you start valuing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:45"> a's in school</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:48">pro process</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:51"> that makes the problems progressively easier</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:54"> right because people complain</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:40:57"> if they don't get an a if they're valuable that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:0"> the only goal for them is that yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:3"> then you have to go to easier and easier problems rather than</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:6"> uh and so i think what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:9"> happened is certainly with uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:12"> ai which is actually a hard problem</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:15"> what they did was to substitute uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:18"> various forms of machine learning</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:21"> and uh you know perceptron</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:24"> type stuff which is which</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:27">you know one part of our</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:30"> brain for a fair amount of our brain does a lot</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:33"> of that but so do so do pigeons</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:36"> yeah they decided to uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:39"> and the nice for them the nice thing is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:42">cohonen years ago showed that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:45"> certain forms of matrix algebra</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:48"> were isomorphic to simple perceptrons</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:51"> and all of a sudden that meant so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:54"> that wasn't always known okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:41:57"> was a guy tubo</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:0"> i don't know yeah well he was the guy who did that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:3"> and uh it put a mathematical</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:6"> basis on it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:9"> and it suddenly allowed academics to write</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:12"> papers with math in them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:15">and since they were supposed to write papers</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:18"> uh all of a sudden</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:21"> academic ai shifted</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:24"> abruptly yeah from just</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:27"> just machine learning and giving up what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:30"> is now called general ai yeah yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:33"> this is like i have to call object-oriented</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:36"> programming dynamic object going to program</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:39">now</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:42">because the term i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:45">away from me and the same thing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:48"> as the term that mccarthy made up</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:51"> which was you know in which machine learning</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:54"> was a tiny tiny part that's right that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:42:57"> take it away from him and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:0"> change and change it change the meaning of the world yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:3"> and so uh a friend of a friend of mine</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:6"> actually wrote a paper somewhere about this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:9"> thing and he called it colonization</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:12">when something is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:15"> successful everybody wants in on it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:18"> and so the they get it by colonizing</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:21"> the term</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:24">in american</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:27"> uh k-12</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:30"> uh mathematics yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:33"> uh they tried to reform it</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:36"> yeah they got so much pushback that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:39">solved the problem by renaming arithmetic mathematics</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:45">that was the solution mathematics in school</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:48">have</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:51"> to realize this is the world that we live in the pop culture that</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:54">in yeah that's right it's all about labels</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:43:57"> it's about designer jeans</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:0"> buying a t-shirt with a label</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:3">got one right on on you right now there you go</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:6">that gives</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:9"> you the illusion that you understand what i mean</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:12"> yeah of course gives</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:15"> other people the illusion</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:18">thank you thank you for you know make</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:21"> me feel like that think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:24"> about it do you know what i really meant well i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:27"> think so but i'm not sure you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:30"> i'm on email so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:33"> i i i know the history i i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:36">'m not sure if i understand exactly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:39"> what you meant i've gotten very few emails</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:42"> about this because people love these</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:45">slogans yeah this is why people love</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:48"> organized religion because</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:51"> the slogan sounds good yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:54"> yeah but you have to realize the slogan is this the</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:44:57">can tell that's right that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:0">have the context so it's the meaning</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:3">yeah and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:6"> so well</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:9"> no the meaning can be what they want it to be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:12"> oh yeah that's that's better yeah that's the way there is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:15"> a university building in padelbourne germany</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:18"> yeah that has your phrase in there yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:21"> building and when i went they asked me to come</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:24"> celebrate it and i asked the audience whether they</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:27"> knew what i meant</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:30"> so i showed them some of the variations</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:33"> okay okay and it's like like point of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:36">view is worth 80 iq points which is another favorite</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:39"> one it's on t-shirts and yeah but</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:42"> i i didn't say whether the sign was plus or minus</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:45">good point</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:48"> and having a weak point</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:51">view uh makes you</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:54"> appear less smart than you actually are</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:45:57">and the same thing with the best way to predict the future is to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:0"> invent it doesn't say anything about uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:3"> whether it's a good future</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:6">see people inventing the future take a look at washington</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:9"> and wall street</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:21">yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:24"> so yeah this is what i'm saying these</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:27"> slogans i started making up see i think in terms</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:30">tell by the fact that i talk</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:33">and talk and the reason is that i'm basically</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:36"> a book guy i don't think</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:39"> in terms of sentences and i don't think in terms of slogans</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:42"> but i started making up these slogans when</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:45"> at xerox when when</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:48"> i realized the executives couldn't deal with threesome with this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:51"> slogan and what they needed was</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:54"> something that sounded good to them</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:46:57">a good way to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:0"> make them think what you wanted it's like</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:3"> when i give a talk uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:6"> the talk is just a commercial</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:9"> for doing a lot of work</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:12"> and most people uh try to use the talk as</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:15">ource of knowledge and it can't be</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:18"> look at the world that we live in this world was not made</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:21">oral discourse this world was made by</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:24"> thousands and thousands of these things</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:27"> yeah these books that's right not bad from what</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:30"> we're doing right now so if if this</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:33"> session you know had</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:36"> help us to understand</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:39"> a little bit more of what is going on and i think the number</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:42"> one thing to take from any talk of mine is wow whatever</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:45">thinking might not be right that's right</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:48"> yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:51">that's right you have to doubt about</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:54">o get you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:47:57">so i think make</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:0"> the mistake of thinking that i know the answers yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:3"> don't but i am a professional thinker</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:6"> so what i do know how to do is to</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:9">my own thinking yeah so most people</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:12"> don't do that alan i you know</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:15"> we have to uh you know the time</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:18"> is up uh i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:21"> you know i would love to be like talking</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:24"> for more like i don't know 20 hours 40</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:27"> hours all the time you could give us but uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:30">this time we have to to end and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:33"> i think the last thing the last thing that you said is</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:36"> how we can you know wrap up uh</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:39">thing um i really appreciate</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:42"> your talk and it was amazing for me a pleasure</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:45"> to be able to talk to you personally i i wanted</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:48"> to go to london this year as i told you in the email</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:51">to the conference of the history programming languages sadly</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:54"> it wasn't done because of</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:48:57"> the covet but anyway um i think everybody</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:0"> enjoyed your talk and everything</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:3">us today and you told us today</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:6"> and i hope to see you someday and</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:9"> for everybody to keep enjoying</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:12">what you think london is a great place to live</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:15"> oh well i haven't i've been out</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:18"> of my flat here since the last week</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:21">february whoa</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:24"> because yeah yeah</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:27"> they have one they have one of the worst death rates</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:30"> uh in the world here in the uk so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:33"> and i'm a former biologist so</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:36">better be careful we want you to leave more</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:39"> i am my wife and i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:42"> are casual we're really here okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:45"> okay alan thank you very much i i</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:48">don't know if you want to finish saying something a small</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:51">than enough okay</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:54"> it's been it's been a tremendous pleasure thank</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:49:57"> you thank you very much bye bye</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:50:0"> okay thank you alan</subtitle>
 +
<subtitle id="2:50:3"> [Music]</subtitle>

Latest revision as of 22:59, 19 November 2021

living organisms can survive in their own waste products
foreign
hello everybody uh
thank you for inviting me to talk
i thought
my bio
is very very brief
pretty much everything i did uh [Music]
came from my research community
and
nobody owes more to it than i do
i'm not going to talk much about the research community
xerox park and
arpa but occasionally i'll refer
to it and
the
talk today
really is in three short
parts because i would like to get
to the question and answer session
i think that would be the most interesting for
for all of us i'm going to try and
get through the talk uh quickly
enough to leave time for questions and answers
and uh
maybe some of the things i say will help
with the questions and answers so
three parts are
about pollution
the kinds of poor thinking that humans do that
gets us in trouble especially
software and other parts
of the world how to find better
than the ones most of us
pick and then we'll get into the question and
answer session
so the first uh
idea about pollution here is this very old slide
that goes all the way back to the 1950s
of a cartoon character named pogo
looking at all the trash and
he says we've met the enemy and he is us
and that's even more true today
because the amount of trash
we have is
much much larger in fact
we can see that
just one of the trash cycles
in the middle of the pacific is almost the size
of the united states
and this is
just the surface that we can see
so they estimate that perhaps 85 percent of
it is below the surface
and whenever i see pictures of this it kind of makes
me think about software
it's just a really
immense amount of it
bigger than most countries
and one of the reasons we have it it doesn't
seem like you have to do any real thinking
to use
trash make trash throw it away
put it somewhere else and
it just gathers up and gathers
and of course computing is that way
most of the software that's made in the world
is not done thinking about the future
in fact most of the costs of doing software
are because of what wasn't
done in the present to
make the 85 percent of the costs
of software in the future much much lower
instead everything is done right now in the present
it's done too quickly
and we wind up with this immense amount of
trash and of course the software doesn't go
in the middle of the pacific ocean
so it's perhaps it's a little bit
more like a slum that's
the size of the united states
perhaps we're living inside
of this
software trash
or slum that's still running
most of it hasn't been turned off
and there are many
go with this i'm just
going to pick one for this
talk so one of
the historical reasons for how we get
into these kinds of troubles is that in
our genes like many
animals many mammals
especially primates our
natural instincts are to tinker with things poke
see what happens if i do this what happens if
i do that and not worry about the consequences
it was hard to get hurt 200
000 years ago and
so trying this and that
's natural it's not something we want to get
rid of if you don't know what else to do it
is kind of fun to tinker
but take something like clay which
resembles a computer in that
you can make the clay
go anywhere you want you can push it around you can tinker
it forever but it's
really hard to tinker it into something great
you just don't get
by it tinkering
into something that's wonderful
like this statue of
uh voltaire
what you get is kind of a mess
to get voltaire you have to
learn a lot of things you have to think about a
develop skills
what you get when you tinker is
omething like this child making a little cup
and when you see something like
this with software
you can complain and say hey
that's not good enough and
these days what people say is well this is
a start when i complained about the world
wide web and especially the web browser
more than 25 years ago i said well
is just a start this is a start we'll we'll make it better
in fact they didn't
many of the things that were wrong then especially
with interaction and
end user creation of things
are as bad today or worse
so what you get when you start off badly
with a tinkering frame of mind is
something that looks like it was tinkered
into existence which is great when a child does it
but you really don't want adult professionals
to be putting a zillion of these out
into the world so if we come back
to tinkering historically we should ask well what came
after tinkering and the answer is
engineering which is
making things using principles
so by trying things out you find ways that
work you remember those ways that work
them up they may even be literally
a cookbook or they're like a cookbook
and then you have a set of things that
are likely to get you faster
where you're trying to go and to get you something that's
better now you still have to make the thing
so making is part
of both tinkering and engineering
but basically in
any real field
that involves making things we want to be able to move from tinkering
engineering so that the goal is engineering
and of course even bad engineering has
principles there are bad ways to cook
things using principles so we also have to ask
are the principles good enough
and after engineering
thousands of years after engineering
the kind of mathematics that we recognize today
was invented about 2500
years ago and it also involves
principles but the principles are about reasoning
and representation
and about 2 000 years later
what we call science today
was invented
one of the most important inventions of all time
because its principles
are about how we negotiate with
the bad stuff inside our heads our brains
ask the deal using
the kinds of belief structures and
memories and everything else we have in here with the phenomena
that we experience in the world
and so it winds up being a negotiation
and it is a deep skill
it's not something built into the human race
it was invented very recently and it's
one of the most powerful things that we've invented
it's also not understood very well
and people who are good these days
work
in a sweet spot
of all four of these things
and if you think of yourself as an engineer
these days you still know mathematics
you still know science you still know
tinkering you think about yourself as a scientist
you still know mathematics you still know engineering
so where you are on this scheme
depends partly on your personality
but basically the people who are really
good use all four of these things
and try to choose which ones are the most
reasonable at time to time so
get into this sweet spot is part of the
idea of being a modern
practitioner in a
stem field now
if we look at computing and ask where is it
it doesn't look so good it's
mostly tinkering still today a little bit of engineering
tiny about a bit of math and almost
no science and
most of the engineering is in the hardware
why is that well it's
get away with murder
with hardware software
people
can make things that are quite dangerous
but in fact because they can be debugged and fixed and patched
and so forth they get away with
much more than any piece of hardware
can so much of the engineering and computing is
in hardware and the vast
majority of software people
think it can be done without learning about engineering without
learning about mathematics and without learning
science and that is
kind of where this mess comes
from now when i started
off programming i started
off like most everybody else
which is not knowing anything
uh important about it i happen to start
a long time ago around 1961
in the air force
but i think my situation back then
was similar to what it is today and that somebody else was
choosing for example
what computers i worked on
they were choosing what operating system in
the case of this machine it didn't have an operating system
which in some ways made life simpler
they chose the programming language
for this machine it was assembly code
development system well it didn't have one
the design or lack of design was represented
in flowcharts back then
done by other people
the legacy system were huge
punch card systems
and the job for us
coders coders were
people who turned flowcharts into machine code
so we were essentially compilers of the higher
level language of flowcharting
and nobody cared
my opinions and i also didn't know
much so that was a situation of course
after after this i went on to
do slightly higher level programming on
supercomputers still mostly in machine code
still with
other people choosing the machines and the choices and so
forth so
now it had happened that i had gone to an engineering
high school and
i had gotten
a undergrad an undergraduate degree
mathematics and another one in molecular
biology so i knew
something about engineering i knew something about mathematics
i knew something about science but it
just wasn't in the computing part of things
which i used as a job to put
hrough college so i was a journeyman
programmer then in 1966
i accidentally wound up in grad school
my theory was spend a year
learning something about computing and avoid
getting a real job and avoid going to grad school
in math or biology and by
accident i round wound up in this
advanced research projects agency
research community that by 1966
had already invented quite a few things they didn't
invented the first parallel computers
real-time computers with displays
and pointing devices they'd invented
the first interactive graphics system
of a modern kind time sharing
uh artificial intelligence
there's already a first little personal computer
the tablet the mouse
hypertext and
they were starting to talk about uh making a
packet switching network which was called
the arpanet they hadn't done it yet
so that was the world that i found myself in
and it was full of people who were
completely unlike the people that i'd worked
with in the air force the people in the arpa community
they all had extensive
of them uh phd's
in engineering of some kind
like electrical engineering or mathematics
or science
and what they were trying to do
take what they knew about these developed fields
these difficult fields that have been developed
over many decades and hundreds of years
and to see what they could use
from this experience in this new
world of computing and
so pretty much everything i had learned
as a journeyman programmer was worthless
the way i went about doing it was worthless
so i wound up having to learn
again but this time
from this point of view of engineering math
and science that this community had
community not only made
its own software made its own programming languages
but it also made its own hardware whenever it needed it
so it's basically full spectrum
computing and in order to get
any kind of degree there you had to learn how to do this full
spectrum computing of hardware and software
and there are some
really famous people who will
be known to you today perhaps the patron saint
of programming don knuth
was there and he his
degree was in mathematics
and turned himself
into what i think we'd all think of
as a great programmer i thought he
was is still hanging
in there doing well and
one of the things that he tried to get people to understand
is this saying premature optimization
is the root of all evil
and it this was a
hard thing for him to say back then
because you could hardly get any computer back
in the 60s to do anything
without optimizing they were just really
slow like they were a million times slower
than your cell phone and
more than a million times smaller
but don pointed out that
most parts of most programs
doesn't matter how fast they run what you
really want to do is get the program right
identify the places that run too slowly and then find
a way of optimizing those
without disturbing the fact that you got the
running and
there are many other sages back then here's
bob barton um my
world's greatest uh computer designer
designer of the furrows b5000
he was a mathematician also and
the things he like to
drum into our heads is that good ideas don't
often scale and of course there
are many other principles from back then
i could make a a
three-day course out of just the principles
that these people used in the early
60s but for this talk i thought i'd just
stick with don's idea that
premature optimization is the root of all evil
and ask well what is it that we should be
thinking of then because we still want to
do something and if we can't optimize
what is it that we should do
well one thing we can do is try designing
that's a new thought to a lot of computer
people they just jump in and start
writing code and think about well we'll design
it later but it doesn't work so well on the other hand
you have to write something because it's
really hard to design a whole system before
trying things out it's too complicated
but you start designing
if we are not going to optimize prematurely
somehow have to separate meanings from optimizations
and this is something we can bring up in the question
and answer thing of what are the different ways of doing
this what does it mean
to separate a meaning from the optimization
for now let's just think of it as a meaning is the
write no matter how slow
that can be debugged
and
allows you to know that you
this meaning captured so like if it's
if your idea in one part of
the thing is you have the idea of sorting
then your little module layer
would be the simplest way to do a sort
it could take forever to sort but it guarantees to be
you something that
you can use for testing
things and also you can use for testing out the optimizations
and once you have the system running no matter how slowly
you can then carefully add in the optimizations
and you can add them in in a way that they
do not pollute the meanings in fact you
can use the meanings to test the optimizations
and by testing
the the optimizations you
want to constantly be able to turn the optimizations off
see whether this is that part of the system
still runs or not turn the optimizations on
see if you get the same results
you can have the meanings and the optimizations running
at the same time until you trust the optimizations
and so forth so there's a whole scheme of things you can do
here and in fact
these kind of things are done in regular engineering
disciplines what i call real engineering
so the designing and separating
from optimizations is called computer-aided design
in regular engineering
these lead to simulation
so you want to simulate
before you commit to doing
the much larger work of packaging
so you have to have a way of simulating what does that mean well we
can talk about that when you
add the optimizations in you better add them in through
the cad tool and then
let the simulator worry about how you
test the optimizations against the meanings
well you have real-time
requirements and your program
might be running too slowly so you just find
a super computer this is what the rpa community
did maybe these days
as you're purchasing super computer time online
from amazon or google
any organization that is targeting
things like this should be paying more
upfront in order to make their actual
program development time uh faster
with
and finally when you get everything going what
real engineering does is it starts thinking about fat
and fab sometimes
requires some additions into
the cat for instance when you're
making a bridge or a
table where you have two beams
connecting each other you might have to put a gusset
in there to help the connection
itself might not be strong enough
so the little things that you have to add in there but you want them to be
minor okay so
that is a typical thing that we find
over and over again in real engineering electrical
cad it's the way everything is done today
nothing electrical
especially no computer chip
is done without completely simulating every aspect
of it before it ever even goes to
masks and silicon
every form of mechanical cad
mechanical engineering
this and the
simulations are particularly critical
because in a jet
are many parts internally
in a jet engine that are actually
their melting point is
temperatures that are in parts of the jet engine
it's really interesting how you make jet engines
to allow these things that would melt
not to melt uh
biocad so here's something that's come along
after computing and
yep the biologists knew enough
to for bioengineering to make
real cad systems with real simulations to allow everything
to be done notice that
all of these things are done using computer
techniques computer displays computer power
to do all of this
so the other engineering fields are using computers to really
help them develop
nanocad
but when you look at
in if you go into most companies and look
to see how people are developing software
you don't find anything like this
what the
what is it whatever
it is it doesn't look like engineering and if you look closely
it's really a
set of facilities for kind of tinkering around
kind of organizing thing but it's mainly aimed at fab
it's much less
aimed at design
almost never almost never do you find
sim as a key component
it's mainly aimed as though
yeah we can do everything right
we're smart enough to be able to write the end
code and have all of the stuff and intertwine
the optimizations and so forth
so this is kind of a yikes
now
what if you don't have the cad
tools most people don't for software
partly because they don't exist but even
the great development systems many people don't develop
using them well what if you don't have those
and what if you don't have a super computer
and the lesson from the past
is you should still do these things
every single one of them you just
o put the optimizations
in more carefully and a little bit
earlier but you still must do the meanings
first so this is a discipline
fact the difference between
gineering and math
and science is the three math
engineering and science they're disciplines
disciplined when you're actually using them
so why don't most
computer people do this well let
me there are lots of reasons but
i'll just pick one is part of it is because our brain
really doesn't want to do all this work
that's why it's a discipline so
we're actually poor thinkers
and we have about 200
known ways that we think poorly
so i'm just going to pick one
way one little part of this
very complicated set
of bad machinery we have between our ears
and i'm going to use
as an analogy
our thoughts or our context as
like a flat surface
it's colored pink here
and our thoughts
will can move around
the surface like an ant crawling on a
table we can pick different directions
if we find an obstacle
we can figure it out how to go around it
so notice everything that we're doing
here is like what we call thinking
but every single thing is
pink and we don't know it's pink because we've never seen
anything but pink so this is a context
that we think of as reality rather
than something that we believe in or something that we've only
been brought up in
okay so
the other thing is uh
when we're seeking goals we tend to cling
on to our goals very very strongly
so if our goal is b
and we will often pick b
in there
so let's try and get to it
we'll start working on it but
in fact the problem space might not actually
flat it just seems flat to the ant
so we start moving towards b and
all of a sudden it starts getting really difficult and then we slide
into a ditch
why are we having so much trouble but we keep on fighting
towards b partly because
in school we've been told
we must solve this problem and
problems are usually given to us by other people
why do we cling so
strongly to these things well
let's go to africa here for a second and
the way
he's going to catch this baboon is he digs a hole in this
termite hill there's the young baboon there
watching it you
put some seeds
nice tasty seeds in the hole here
then he just backs off and
wondering what what's going on here
and that's curious remember baboons are primates
like we are
now looking around well the guy's over there
maybe i should take a look
now when he gets close
he can start smelling the seeds
reach us
in and he's got the seeds
but now we want to let go of the seeds
you can let go
anytime but he won't let go
so the hunter just comes over to him and
ties him up pulls
him out and he's got the baboon
so let me just tell you i won't tell
what what happens after you can find this
uh movie on youtube
and
the baboon does not get hurt
he hunter had a really interesting reason for wanting
to capture the baboon and you'll find that out
but for here uh what we need to understand
is the seeds
this
cognitive uh glitch
which we have baboons have
and many other animals have
it's called loss aversion once we have
something we don't want
to let it go it becomes much more valuable
more valuable to
this baboon than his life because the
hunter might have wanted to kill him and eat his brains
ame thing
with us that goal
becomes more valuable to us
sometimes in our life
and often uh
prevents us from actually solving
problems uh that need to be solved
well if you knew more like
actually a an explorer you know
well when things get tough maybe
we should re just explore around
maybe we don't have to go up over this
hill and then down the valley
and back up in the hill and stuff maybe there's a way
around and this seems like well
we're going we have to go away from the goal to do this
yeah you have to go away from the goal
going to take you a longer distance to get to the goal
but in fact it might take you less time
and less effort to get to the goal
in fact by looking off to the side boy there might
even be a super highway i've colored it blue because that's
my color for science science
is a super highway again you get go off out
of your way get onto this thing you can go three times as fast
and you get to the goal faster
but if you start using science
you might
decide to invent a plane just
fly over the darn thing
but once you start doing science
you've got this even bigger idea is wow there might
be a non-pink world
there might be a whole blue world up there and
only in this blue world is there a goal
c that's the one i really wanted
i didn't even know it
and by the way if you think
about this in terms of your education if you went
to a a really good university
then you probably
went in there with some goals like b a
really good university will change you so much
that it will show you things like see
and your life will never be the same again
so this idea of getting trapped
in a context
and the idea that there are other contexts and
it takes some real effort to get out of
seems real to these other contexts
that might be more powerful this
is the message from this section of the
talk
so how can we get
in the frame of mood to try and find
these bigger goals
these bigger visions
and again this is a huge area
the things uh i was
interested in still am
is the idea of personal computing
back in the 60s we used to say to people well person
is the first word in personal computing so you
better not try and do personal computing if you don't understand
uh persons and of course
people today do not understand
uh people at all and so the
most of the apps that are done are
have terrible user interfaces and
are actually not very good for people
so this is a first lesson but in
fact this is a little bit of a red
because a person all by themselves
is being punished
solitary confinement banishment
we actually exist in a
society of people and
so when we talk about personal computing we have
to talk about humans in a culture
we have to understand what humans
are
that we share with other humans the thing that makes us
human and that will give us great insights
into ourselves because it's
hard to look at ourselves when we're in the pink plane
and just see anything but pink
and in a society
well we've got duties like voting
we have duties to
the next generation whether or not we have children
every
culture has its own world view we need to understand
those and get more powerful ones
every culture
has some form of schooling we need to pay
attention to that there's this idea of richness
richness is
outside the purely
pragmatic we have large
respond to art and love
and friendship and
many other things that are not strictly
pragmatic we need to
care for those and then
we have the thing that most people are worried about way
too much which is livelihood how can i get
a job many people go into programming
because they think they can make money at
it and this is a very bad reason for going into programming
you really shouldn't if you're not going to go into
programming to try and improve the world you
should try and look elsewhere
and these things
here these seven
things are part
of especially in our day and age
are part of a much larger context of what
you might call grand deadly
important issues
i just have 12 here and you can think of more
these are the things that we
worry about also
and these things are global now
there's a large enough population
of the cultures
have enough power to affect the entire world
and are thus affecting all of these things for everyone
pandemic now
that is now worldwide and it gives
people perhaps a bit of a sense although
i think people still are not taking it seriously
and they certainly are not taking the climate seriously
enough because
this world we live on is dying and we
so a child born in 2020
is going to be 80
at the end of the century and you wonder what what is
going to be left for this child
but if you're taking the point of view
that i'm advocating here the other way to look
it is wow 80 years
things could be much better for everybody in the world
80 years from now if we just took all of
this seriously and learned how to think better
and the context is even bigger than the world
it's only been about
100 years or so since we realized that the universe
is vastly larger than our own galaxy
and it's only been a few hundred years
since we realized we lived in a galaxy
we are now aware of most
uh people on the planet in the form
thousands of different cultures all with different beliefs
now all in communication
through our technological structure this is a self-portrait
of the internet but it stands
for all of the technology that we've made
over the last few hundred years
and we ourselves
are a complex system
and our brains are
even more complex systems
so one of the contexts here is this idea
that what we need to be aware of is
ystems that we live in and the systems that we
and these systems are all interconnected
and intertwined so
most of them are invisible
so the four ideas here
first science
is not just about finding out about how
atoms work or how photons
work or how stars work
science the larger
idea of science is the set of heuristics
with to get around with
brains this is the way to
this is why everybody should learn science
systems
is one of the strongest ways we have
to think about complexity and almost
nobody learns systems it's not taught in classrooms
at least in the united states and
over here in the in the uk
and most computer people that i've talked to
outside of special
community most computer
people know very little about systems they think
programming is creating an algorithm
rather than designing
a system and being part of a system so this is
a very weak view then two ideas from einstein
we cannot
solve our problems with the same levels of thinking that we use to
create them this is true of the small in computing
the way people have been going about computing
are just going to make things worse the way we've gone
about health the way we've gone about climate
it's all going to make things worse if we
persist and einstein has this nice
definition of insanity which is
over and over and expecting
that's what we're doing and again you can
if you think small in computing that's what we're doing
computing is hardly different today
except in scale than
it was uh 60 years ago
it's really a shame
the scaling is just making things worse
because almost anything that was done 60 years ago
couldn't handle
scale very well we had to
invent entirely new methods to do things
just even like the ethernet or the internet
to make personal computing and the user interfaces
scale across billions of people
so scaling is another issue that we could be
talking about
so we can wind up here
talking
about the world's greatest hockey player
his name is wayne gretzky
a thousand more goals than anybody
history and he was just a little
guy wasn't big he wasn't tough
took a lot of shots on goals his his
his percentage of
getting goals for shots wasn't very good and some people
complained and he said well you miss 100
of the shots you don't take so
his idea here is you you have to show up and
shoot on goal you can't
worry you have to do all your planning ahead of time you
whether any particular shot is going to go in you have to keep
shooting and
he said well a good hockey player goes
to where the puck is a great one goes to where the
going to be and he didn't mean tracking
he meant getting to a place on
the ice where some teammate
could pass him the puck
where he would have a clean clear shot on the goal
so he would could understand
the patterns of uh all the players
on the ice he could see well if i get over there
somebody can get me a thing and then that will give me a shot
on goal there so this is a completely
different way because most sports especially
sports like like hockey or football
are basically tactical whereas
gretzky was the greatest
player in history because he was strategic
and
he furnishes a good analogy for
an example that i'll end with here from
so the first
idea is uh
you have to
have ways of coming up with ideas
and as i mentioned in the beginning my way was
by being embedded in this incredible community
that was full of rich visions and
interests in helping people so i didn't invent
the idea of personal computing but this
is what i worked on for my thesis
in 1968 and while i was working on it
i
ran into seymour papert who had
been he was a mathematician
like me and he had realized some really important
things about computers
and how children could
learn mathematics by taking advantage of what
could actually do and when i met
him in 1968 what
i saw was something that i understood
and understood beforehand except i didn't
understand it i was in the pink plane
and pappert was in the blue plane
he had seen something that was right there in front of
all of our eyes that combined
what he knew about children and what
he knew about computers and what he knew about mathematics
that provided a
glimpse into a complete revelation
about how
uh children's science and math education
changed and that just
completely blew my mind and so on the
plane flight back to utah i had a blue thought
not a pink thought the
oh this makes
computing really important makes it
more like reading and writing and if it's like reading and writing
children have to do it and pappert is showing us how
and that means children have to have their own
computer and it better be really portable because you don't
confine them inside they need to be able to use it outside
and arpa was working on uh
besides the arpanet working on a wireless version
so it would be connected wireless it would have a flat screen
display and so this cartoon
is what i drew on the plane back to utah
and i started
thinking about it and
community the thought process
went kind of like this well
you have this idea seems good
might be bad but one of the things you should
look around and see if there's are any exponentials that are going
to help in the future it's not possible now
so you can take the idea out 30 years
like to 1998 or 2000
and ask what does this
idea look like 30 some odd years from now
and the answer is oh yeah absolutely going to happen
moore's law will guarantee that we'll be able to
do this but we don't know how people will use it we
don't know what the user interface would be like so then the
critical part is bringing it back uh 10
to 15 years
bring it back to about 10 10 to 15
out in this case it was like 1985
1986 because
when you can get something within
10 to 15 years you can bridge the computing
gap by just paying money
you can build the
function of a computer 10 to 15 years
from now you can build it now
it's going to cost 10 20 times as much
it's going to be 10 or 20 times too large
but you can build it and you can build a bunch
of them so that's what we did we built
a little supercomputer for everybody at park in fact we
built about 2 000 of them and this
allowed us to have
a window to invent the software not
just the the operating
interface but a whole bunch
of the software that would be usable in 10
years or so from then
and this computer is
fast as what you could get from
time sharing interactive time sharing and allowed
us to do two things
there's a whole bunch of stuff that we didn't have to optimize
we could just program the meanings
of user interface ideas hundreds of them
and do a dozen experiments a day
is what we did to invent the
part gui that everybody uses today
the other thing we could do is by optimizing
uh
in the both of these in the way that i mentioned
uh that allowed us to do the
applications of the future uh
in 1973 1974.
this is microsoft word
as it existed in 1974 at xerox park
than 10 years before it appeared
uh commercially but it was quite
possible to do because this machine was actually more powerful
than a mac or an ibm pc
of 1984 85 or so
right so
the simplest way to think about making progress
here is always find ways of computing
in the future and even
if you don't have a super computer there are ways you
in the future because you can make a future
architecture just using
software alone that is going to get you much further along
okay
made it to the question and answer and with that
i'll turn it back to my friends
for the next phase of this
talk thank you very
much
is
in
can you both hear me okay yes
yes good so again
being with us alan and
so as i was saying i am not worthy to take this conversation
so i will just let you talk with
with hernan okay i'm not
worthy either but anyway i'll do it
no no
no thank you thank you very much alan it's it was
amazing the talk i i always enjoyed your talks
uh it's a new way your worth
ways of thinking and new ideas and
and that's great not too many people do that so that's
amazing and i like to start talking about science
because that's something that i know you like and
you talk about it also and uh you know you
always encourage scientific thinking in
in people and i remember uh an example
that you gave in the squeakers dvd like 20 years ago
to quincy jones where you
you showed you know you told us that we science
broaden our vision and in that
way we can you know see beforehand
going to happen a long time from
from now like for example aids and so on
um but in your
that we don't understand science very well
my question is why is that why it's so difficult for
understand science and to think scientifically and
how can we change that well i think
if we look historically
and if we think about science as
what we think of as modern science
we it started really uh
400 or maybe 450
years ago now the greeks had
scientists but they didn't have
science because science is not just
individual scientists but it's also a community
that helps debug fondly held
notions that
people as human beings have
right so zionists are humans as well and
so um they like their own theories
and
one of the one of the hallmarks of the existence
of science is debugging
of ideas and even
ideas that seem to be backed up by experimental
evidence the idea is it's not just
about what one person
thinks is going on or tries to demonstrate
is going on if you go back historically
we can trace back humanity at least several
hundred thousand years we know that
the uh the female line
of humanity goes back 200 000
years and so anybody
the question well how how could it possibly
have taken us 200 000 years to
invent science what was so unobvious
about it and part of the answer is
uh our social
uh cultures
relied on
storytelling so regular
language convolved
with storytelling and using stories as a way
of remembering things and explaining things
and a story is like math
it can be consistent
but it doesn't have to have anything at all to do with the real world
and the other part
of it is if you look at optical illusions
the thing that anybody
who experiences an optical illusion has to
realize is oh i'm not seeing what's out
i
just think i'm seeing what's out there but actually what i'm seeing is
something manifested inside my own head
and that's why i'm seeing some sort of parallel
you know the simplest one is just measuring
holding up your thumbs yeah and i can see
in the in the video that the closer
one is about half the size
but in fact what i'm experiencing is the closer one
is about 80 percent of the size
because our brain knows they're the same size
and so i'm seeing something about a third of
a second late that
is a manifestation of a combination of my
beliefs and understanding with some input
from the outside world putting together into
a kind of a story which is presented
back to me as reality and of course
the though right now we have a perfect
example for the world to see in the
american president that we have who basically
like all humans but
in a very public way is projecting his
beliefs out onto the world
and taking that as his reality
and that's basically what humanity is all about
you see it in computing all the time
also if you just look at the comment section in
any slash dot or
this stuff you see people constantly
projecting their own beliefs
and desires as reality
so it
also happens that this is the 400th anniversary
of one of the major
starting places for science
so in 1620
a guy in england here by the name of francis
bacon wrote a book
uh called the new organization of knowledge
novum organum scientia
science actually meant
knowledge and
the gathering of knowledge it doesn't didn't mean back then what
we mean it today and in this book
he points out that humans are terrible thinkers
in a many many ways
he picks four his four favorite ones
are were terrible because of our genetics
in other words our brains weren't made to think they were
made to do something else
our cultures
weren't made to think they were made to survive
our languages were made for
stories not for representing
ideas very accurately or being able to use
to help think and then our academics
are teaching
uh facilities uh
will often teach ideas that have long
been debunked
we are doomed basically
yeah close close to it so
so what uh what bacon called for is what
he said was we need a new science
and what he said is what what science is what
this new science is a new way to get knowledge
is basically to come up with all the heuristics
and methods we can come up with
to get around with what's wrong with our brains
so this is the big idea about science
and it's not taught in any school in the
united states that i know of no we are not even
close to that i mean yeah big idea about science
is not about uh
no life on mars and
certainly not what you find in a science museum the science
museums in the us and the uk have
hardly any science in them at all they're full of technology
which isn't the same thing at all
but bacon's idea was much larger
so just to make everybody feel better or maybe worse
the
this 400th anniversary of some of the most
important ideas of the last 400
years has not been mentioned once
in any of the british papers
so the the people in the uk are as innocent
of scientific knowledge and history
everybody else in the world and they have no idea
that science actually for real got started
what happened to us in our field
in this software development with you know the the
people that created the development is has
even a bigger problem which is
because uh
when you start off with software
you're starting off with something that probably isn't
going to kill anybody so it's not like
building a big bridge or building an airplane
or something and so you don't really
have to know very much about engineering
write a program you certainly don't have
anything about science to write a program
and you don't have to really know anything about math to write a program
yeah so
uh because simple programs will still do
something it's a little bit
more like this game that was around for a while called
guitar hero yeah where you
could pretend to be a guitar player
and things with things would happen and
a lot of the attraction of programming uh
when the 80s started up and the attraction of
the 8-bit micro computer was
just to touch it
just to feel part of this thing that was happening
the problem is none of the content happened and this is very
common in pop cultures
so pop culture will develop its own music
which is usually much much simpler than
uh develop music it will develop
its own notions of knowledge
and science and you can see it uh
[Music] all over the world
through uh social media
right so this is a universal
publishing system as
viewed by uh
by the majority of people who
haven't had the good fortune to undergo
education in basically the 20th or the
21st century so we have this enormous
culture that
is not very far
really from the middle ages
and we can see that by looking at
most of the world and most of the world's leaders
have reacted to uh the covid
think of it yeah that's right please because
anybody who's actually understood
an eighth grade biology course
these days those
should know exactly what's happened there's nothing that tricky about
it real question is
how infectious is it really but
as far as what a contagious
deadly disease without a cure can
do it should be something that every adult
on the planet
at least in the first and second worlds
should be able to respond to well
now new zealand did a great job yes yeah
they had the right kind of leader the leader was
able to get business people and the politicians
both parties together and get everybody to agree
to this how she did that i'm not
sure but he did
do it and it results in there so if
you prorate new zealand's 25 deaths
with a population of 4 million
you can see that almost every other country
in the world has been needlessly killing off
tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands
of people uh unnecessarily
just because hardly anybody is educated
enough in something that you learn in seventh
or eighth grade biology so because business
life basically
well i don't think they think of it that way you don't
no they just don't see it i
think if you held a gun to the head of a businessman
that said would
you rather live or would you rather
uh stay in business i think they
choose life most of the time most
of the time yeah most of the time there's a famous
there was a famous joke which i
is told better in the u.s okay
which i won't won't tell here but it's quite funny about
that so no i think the big problem
the
lack of imagination
so if you think about what that our brain imagine readily
well we can readily imagine gods
we've never seen them but these are things
that are part of our subconscious
and so and we have experienced them in
dreams so we can imagine things like that
more readily than we can anything that
that is related to science or to think scientifically
yeah if it's if it's really small if it's really
fast if it's really new
and this is where bacon comes in because what
is okay or or
sentence here so we can go okay
next question is yeah yeah so
you know the term artificial intelligence is
used widely and very loosely
these days
but if you think about it what is it what is artificial
intelligence well it's artifice
it means making something you have
so
somehow you're trying to make some sort of a
process that is going
to act intelligent and
impressed with any such process
unless it's more intelligent than a human
and so if we look for something on
the planet that is an artificial
process that's more intelligent than any human
there's only one and that's
science itself
science is a better scientist than any scientist
and science
itself is that process
that makes a group of people much more intelligent
than human genetics human culture
human language and human academics and
so uh
so this should be a simple idea
but partly be
because of the way education goes
uh science has been
relegated to just another belief system
yeah and it is a belief
system but it's a belief system that's backed
up with a lot more than most of the other belief systems
and that can reflect on itself and it
can change based on most mistakes that it makes
and those things that's basically what other belief
systems don't do like religions not really
i think argentina is a catholic
country and one of
the most famous philosophers in history was saint thomas
aquinas and reflecting on
christianity from the standpoint of
greek philosophy was exactly what he did do
so you don't want to you don't want to use that
i think the thing that's
interesting about science is
the particular methods it uses to
try and deal with the noisiness of our human brains it's
basically an error correct detecting and correcting
system if you learn how to do it
and it's basically a skill so
it's not something you know and some people
it's like in music some people have a little more talent than others
but in develop music talent
won't do it you say you have to
practice and develop skills and
the same thing is true for thinking and thinking
is uh in the large
is primarily the province of what's what science
is about so in computing
uh you can hardly see this recently
recently meaning the last 30 or 40
years so the in
the 60s and 70s i started in
like 1961 or 62
the people who are doing what
call computer science today
and what we call software engineering today
started off as real scientists
and started off uh
as real engineers yeah we weren't having undergraduate
degrees that's right there was no
no programming career or
computer science career that's right and so the people who went
into it were interested in it
and just like i did it from another perspective
and that allows them to to see
we as developers don't see
it was a special thing because don't forget there
still ibm yeah back there
and there was i i learned to program in the military
in the air force and the programming there
was just as uninspired
as it is today yeah
what was special uh was that the the
research community that i just luckily
stumbled into in the mid 60s
had started thinking about
what the computer actually meant
and for them it was the next 500 year invention
after the printing press
and many of the things that were going to be important
were how it could go qualitatively beyond
the civilization building inventions
of the past several thousand years like writing
mathematics science
press and so forth and that
o this idea and ibm
did not have this idea the air force did not have
this idea but these people did
and because they were in a good place and because the cold
war was going on there was extra money in
the department of defense uh
one of the people who had this idea got funded
in a big way and he spread
the result is most of the technologies
that we use today which are not invented by ibm
not invented in the air force so
a fortunate thing the processes
that led to those inventions
hardly exist today yeah
see those kind of research
and in current industry at all yeah
the opposite is all the opposite just short term
i want to do this very fast and
yeah the talks i've given
about this in the past the line i put
up on the screen is the goodness of the results
correlates most strongly with the goodness
of the funders so
the rarest thing is a good funder because
if you look at the bell curve at the top of the bell
curve in every generation you're going to get uh
you know super clever people
to draw and so the thing
different than was not us
we just happened to be the lucky people
there the difference was in in the funding
and the funders found us
and uh encouraged us to follow our instincts
and so we've got what we've got that's what we don't
have today yeah that's right so
let me go back just one more question about
science and then we can go to to software and and that
stuff so let's let me let me play a
devil's advocate here okay i
just for a little bit i'm not sure if i can do it right but
anyway uh you know science is great you
it as the most one of the most important achievement of humankind
and uh but science
is what brought us here i mean not science
we humans using science as a
tool is what brought us to the situation where we
waste everywhere with the climate
you know the burning woods and
those kind of things because science
in science in in some way allow us to
think better how to build stuff
but in the other way
not ready to use that powerful
tool so
scientific in thinking can help with
e consequences of things but the actual historical
fact is that
uh business
technology and the industrial revolution
led us to the problem we are what
science did was to make engineering
immense
and the industrial revolution that was starting
yeah was to
add on to this immensely powerful ways
it transformed engineering from something
that was essentially cookbooking
making cookbooks of things that worked
doing things by uh by principles
being able to actually derive uh
physical uh results
and estimations and new
kinds of materials and so forth so science
is a culprit in the sense that it opened
up the possibilities
and the power ratio
or what people can do
but basically when i look at
history what i see is
today what i see
is people uh
just trying to get ahead
in various ways and for instance in
america i don't think most heads of businesses
are really all that aware that they're part of a
country particularly
the multinational ones and certainly
uh if we go back 200
000 years ago we have to look
at something that we can find in all mammals
that
that we have also which is trade-offs
between two powerful forces
that are very different one is cooperation and
one is competition
the
more powerful one unfortunately is competition
in the end
it takes a very very special person
not to try and save themselves
even though we know cooperation
better than competition it is and not
only that uh you
know the reason uh there are social species
of which we are one of them is because cooperation
uh even if you're in a wolf pack
allows the pack to
and you're in
a baboon troop it allows the baboon so
uh cooperation
evolved as
uh all the other traits evolved
underneath that though
is competition and so
you know sociologically
people feel deprived if they are put into
solitary confinement or banished
but as soon as they get back into society
they start competing
and it radiates
out from them to their
you know there's a saying in some of the arab
countries that uh me against my
i against our family
our family against our neighbors
o these
uh tribal uh identity
things radiate outwards
and there are many science fiction stories written about
how to unite the human race will just uh
attack the world with aliens
and all of a sudden then the humanity can see itself
as a bigger tribe that's right and
get together and fight the aliens because yeah
so this this is the this is uh thinking of
completely immature beings who have
no real sense of of what's going on
the big deal in business
is at least in america
is most of the ceos i
know are not
really aware that the reason
they're making money at all is because
they exist within a cooperative structure
that was set up 250
years ago the wealth
that they are tapping into is there
because of the cooperative structure and then they're competing
underneath it so again just just to finish
this off to go back 200 000 years ago
you ask well
if we go back before there's hardly any
culture there's probably never
a time you know because uh primates have cultures
oh so before that even before
go back okay when we have
almost no culture
there's almost no language yeah
but we ask well what uh how did things
uh managed to survive back
then and the answer is genetically we
have drives to reproduce
that are very strong yeah we have
uh drive
to find food and water
so hunting and gathering
is predates any kind
of cooperation if you're
by yourself you're still going to be looking for food and water
yeah and if you think about hunting gathering
it doesn't scale well yeah
right hunting and gathering one of the scalings
of it is to steal things
one of the scalings of it is to
uh strip a
cooperative area dry yeah
so there are many many variations
of this and so one of the
complaints that you could have about school
is that schools do not
teach at least in the united states again
schools do not teach the
children anything important about their own species
these are kind of taboo subjects
what are human beings actually
and we just we aren't very
pretty as a species when you start looking at it from that standpoint
but the good part
of looking at it that way is we get to see
how a
civilization can be
kinder can be more cooperative can
be smarter all of these things
and that is something that uh you need to learn early
because certainly mo i would say most american adults have
idea about this at all from their standpoint
his battle for survival
yeah competition is is being taught in
high school and schools on sports
and all those things instead of instead of cooperation yeah
yeah and rhetoric and governments is we're
not competitive enough what
how could what does that mean on a finite planet
hat's crazy
i don't mean as a metaphor i mean this it is literally
insane yeah well it's what is happening to
yeah and of course the you know scientists
were aware of the climate problems
uh starting in the early 60s
yeah yeah they knew
about it and and the people the business people
tried to not to the idea to spread
out yeah yeah it's not if the business
people really understood it they
uh could actually see
one of the one of the biggest problems with lack of history
is besides
trying to avoid blunders that
done early
we reinvent the flat tire all the time
as you said reinvent the flat tire all the time
but the other thing is we miss opportunities
so for example whenever we've had
a big calamity
in the last 100 or more years
usually
things have not been prepared well enough for it
these glamorous are usually wars not always
but for example the result
of the wars
the aftermath of the wars is
usually prosperity
and the reason is is that it's in war when
there's the extra investing kind of investment
that conservative people don't like to
make or anything
yeah when you're really
in trouble you might give a smart
person you don't understand some money anyway
just right and so the kind
of funding research funding that's done during a war
is unfortunately almost the only
kind of research funding that is uh
that has been done it's when people this is why the
institute of health in the united states
gets more than three times the funding than all of the
national science foundation national
science foundation funds all the other sciences
but the national institute of health why because
people are afraid of dying so they're much
politically they they can
imagine their own death they're afraid of it and there
is a goal that unites them to do that funding
yeah in that case the real
problem with all of the the problems in
recreating arpa and xerox park
uh in recent times
have been that the the mostly billionaires that
have tried it uh they
want to uh direct the research
yeah and i've told any number of them
i said well you shouldn't be doing
this because if you look at why arpa and xerox
park succeeded
the people who directed the research were the people
who were going to do the research the people who chose the problems
were these uh top
researchers that's right and with all due respect
sir you've spent the last 20 years
becoming a billionaire
researcher and so the chances that you can
pick a good research problem are essentially zero
you just want to be a wannabe
you want to be part of this and you're
not satisfied with your billion you want to do this too
but you're incompetent to do it so in
government it's slightly different uh
where the people who are responsible
think they need to be in control because you
know they are responsible yeah that's right but the
made arpa and park different was that the people
who are responsible knew they couldn't be in control
yeah yeah big lighter and bob taylor they
allow you to do whatever you want
for trying to get a culture
going trying to find talent
responsible so taylor
never suggested a single research
project uh at park and
lick lighter stayed with his vision
and people asked well how are you going to do the vision
know but i'm going to fund people
know yeah and they'll take
30 or 40 this is you know
this is more like playing baseball yeah it's hard
to get and it is interesting because bob
taylor was a psychologist wasn't he
and lee glider that's right so they they
knew how people how to get people together
stuff i think there is some of that
both of them happen to be experimental psychologists
okay we're not clinical
yeah yeah and they're
different personalities lick was
just a very nice guy
and okay you're special though he was
one of the inventors of cognitive psychology
so he's special but his personality was
also special taylor
was a uh
much more aggressive
okay he adored
lick glider okay and
uh when he when he
was part of the arpa thing he put a lot of effort
exactly why what
lick lighter did was working so well
and when he became head of head of the
computing research at park he put those principles
he was not acting by instinct
he knew how to do it you were basically yeah
he said uh this is what lick lighter
did by instinct
uh we can we can do this by method
we'll just do do
it this way and park
was a concentration of both
talent and method yeah and it was
amazing wasn't it well
i mean everything that you've done there
yeah well i think the most amazing thing
was uh the bulk of the the work
that's known today was done by you know
25 or 30 people yeah yeah everyone
every part of it and so the concentration
of of abilities there was
large and the concentration of method
the taylor's application
of what he thought was a good way
to do this thing was more powerful than the
than the more ad hoc arpa
management way that he'd learn from
so yeah so
so i always i when i look to
when people ask me questions i said well you know
don't look at us look at look
at the you know the four funders at arpa were
lick lighter ivan sutherland
larry roberts and then taylor
came and did park and so if
you if you want to thank somebody thank them
and you know
uh when we've gotten metals in
the past uh i mean my
line is that well um you know metal
40 years after the fact is okay but
the if you if you want a real
reward think of the reward for being
this work yeah back
then to actually do that's the big deal
and then as much of a reward is the
fact that the funders were giving us gold medals
and a lot more gold than was in the
gold medals they were giving it us
before the fact knowing that most of it was going to turn
into lead so
when you get funding like that and you get to do the
work uh you don't need anything uh
that's it that's it yeah
place in the you know the right environment
you create it was great and we
knew it was great back then uh
and uh our
appreciation for it went up by about a factor of thousands
after it ended
yeah yeah yeah right because i was in
it i had been out
of the regular culture
because i was in it in grad school and then uh for 10
years at xerox park and so i've
been completely isolated from the outside computing
culture for 15 or 16
years and i was quite shocked
when you get out of there yeah
about everything i
can imagine yeah yeah i can imagine so let's
go to that subject now to software
if you don't mind because i know i know
that you can talk for an hour by yourself
i i need to do something you know
you should interrupt me uh by the way
much okay
okay yeah but i'm not sure when to interact
when to know but anyway so let's
let's talk about software and basically software design
uh you know for a long time software design has been
thought as drawing uh
on paper you know and to the design
was to draw basically what you
thought the organization of the system should be
while you were running the system in your head
so you were imagining the system and then
making some draws and you know that was designed
time that was the classic idea as you mentioned
flowcharts in the air force uh you
know that was maybe thought as design but
uh you know we know that that doesn't work
at least what you know the history
tell us that it doesn't work so what
is for you software design because you talk about it in your talk
you talk about cad and those kind of things so what
activities should i
should be done in software design
i think the first thing is
uh i'm sorry i'm sorry to interrupt
you to finish the question because you also
talk about meaning creation of meaning
and how do you relate that to design i think
that the key point is there so yeah
i think the first thing the simple
thing is that
you know the thing i had to get
over in a hurry when i went from
being a journeyman programmer
in the early 60s to accidentally
research community
was that the
the average program
in the early 60s was relatively
easy to do
the computers were small and
so the main problem in programming back
then was more than anything else
get completely
mired in optimization
because you had to optimize you didn't have enough memory you didn't
enough uh cycles
uh so that the tendency
was to convol as people do today
yeah yeah we're still doing that having
that old school in in our heads yeah
so the uh however arpa
was uh
basically the people who
were our mentors first
generation people who were funded by lick lighter
we're basically all systems people
they have many of them
sage air defense
system which was
24 installations of
two computers the size of a
softball a football field
wow there was one floor
of a four-story building the basement of the building
was the power supply for
these computers so we could think of two amazing
and then the third
floor was operations and the top floor
had 150 graphics terminals
that were run by these enormous
vacuum tube computers and
the government built 24 of these block
houses wow all connected
into the radar systems of the of the country
and so that's what these
people were doing in the 50s and
so the monumental scale
of
people who came out of world war ii
and i should mention here for
people who are interested in history if you want to understand
where the mental framework
came from for the
this uh research work in the 60s and 70s it
came out of the mostly out of the radar work
which was jointly between
uk and the uk yeah i'm
primarily at mit but started
off in in britain and there's a great story there's some great
books read about it and
a talk that you had with a
on youtube that where you talk
about that i've got a couple of talks about that i've written
some papers yeah about
it also another monumental
effort was the manhattan
project
so most people aren't who don't the manhattan project they spent
you think about what the us was doing in
world war ii the manhattan project itself
cost more than one percent
of all of the defense funding
war ii so
it involved about 800
000 people it involved
making new cities yeah
because they went wherever they could find cooling water and they
built new cities they brought in school teachers they bought
in doctors they built entire cities they built
plants of acres and acres they didn't know
the best way to refine
get refined uh material
for the for the bombs there are four
known ways and general grove said well let's let's
just go all out on all four of them
and he was the he was the head of this project
and so his history is worthwhile
reading to read about uh
you know something at scale that scale
yeah yeah and the same thing is and i've used
this many times in talks is my background partly
was in uh molecular
biology and you have my favorite book up there
yeah yeah behind you yeah
that's my favorite edition of the book the third is oh
cool the red one the right one not
one that's i think that was the sweet spot
and uh they haven't read it yet
little bit big one of the best
reads ever yeah it's about a thousand pages long
one week one week of reading
you're in uh
so if you come out of that background computers are
tiny tiny tiny little things
and systems
are even the
largest human-built systems are small compared
to what biology pulls
off and of course a lot of the stuff in biology
uh can't be applied to computing
just because of the nature
of the way the materials themselves work and
what things are like at sub microscopic
scales but a lot of it does
and another book that was very influential
was uh christopher alexander's
book which is his phd
thesis called notes on a synthesis of form
yes yeah he repudiated this book
because he got hippified uh
after he went to berkeley went into a different
subsequently wasn't that bad
but this phd thesis book was
really interesting and his
his main example
done after this fascinating
discourse of how you think about complexity
and design and the conflicts
and finding them and
modulizing things and it's just great it's
great today it's just a great book i have it here
somewhere yeah but the end
the the end example of it is
taking the uh
new uh a new
uh village in india from
scratch so it's going to have a
population of a few thousand people and it has
you know a thousand or two constraints
of every different
kind in the thing and how are you going to design this
and this is great because this is not a typical
if you're looking for computing stuff
uh people are start taught programming
examples that are nothing like
or should be nothing like anything they're going to do
for real yeah yeah yeah that's right
much better off dealing with us
a live running system
like say small talk yeah or even
javascript although the it's so ugly in there
but it's live so
system that you can look at
you're much better off learning how to program in
the context of the system because
then you start having to sift into
your mind yeah it's
because you have to to realize
that if you change something you can break it while running
so it you know you can do you can learn a
little bit of driving a car driving around
a field or a parking lot yeah with no cars
on it but really driving is learning how to drive on a
street where you have stop signs and you have that's right
there's all these things you have to worry about and it's very confusing
and the process of learning how to drive
is learning how to create things
in your mind for dealing with all
of the heuristics that have to be done in real time but
so design is again one of these thinking skills
and part of it part
skill is how to hold
in your mind simultaneously
uh things
that conflict or seem to
rather than trying to resolve them too early
and i forget whether i did it in this talk or not but
about you know our ideas made
or like categories where they can't interpenetrate
or
they
hello
i think i lost i think
we lost yeah oh we lost you
the last yeah 30 seconds chris
from my point yeah so the question is are ideas made out
of matter yeah
so one idea can't is basically
antagonistic to another or rd is made out of radiation
so you can shine lots lots of colored
lights at a wall and they superpose
so you can see all of them there they don't interfere
with each other you see interesting combinations
and that's one of the states you have to get into
when you design or when you think about anything
when you're dealing with complexity
the last thing you should try to do is solve a problem
the number one thing you have to do when you're dealing
with complexity is to try and find out what's going on
yeah try to find a way of looking at what's going
yeah the problem the problem finding instead of
the problem solving grinding is and that was the big
one of the big things i got in arpa yeah
they realized the problem finding is that and so
when you get to software
and think about what's the software possible the
pro software process is
trying to deal with
e kinds of things that alexander was dealing with
and the first thing you have to have is some
understanding of what the meaning is
before you start trying to to optimize so
alex so if you look at alexander the i should
have brought brought the book
i have it in my room i don't have it here but yeah
i have it here
oh my
god
this is london so i don't have my real
library here but
i have about a thousand
whoops i have about a thousand books here
just just a few and i
need some yeah so this book
yeah you can't
uh praise it too highly
eah
i read it it's really interesting it opens your
mind yeah so here's his final
design of the village
uh but of the most interesting
things is how careful he is
yeah so appendix
one is the worked example where he
looks at hundreds of constraints
and tries to put them down very carefully
if you look at the requirements and of course
the
real question is are you actually saying anything when
requirement down in a lot in a natural language
so
the belief we had when we started thinking
about this stuff and you bet again
the arpa community
invented computer-aided design
and general motors
was doing also doing a project but
i think was most strongly invented
in sketchpad by ivan sutherland
and then especially by his brother bert
and others at lincoln lab and
mit had a huge numerically
tool project
that was also about computer-aided design so
the idea is you and a lot of the computer graphics that was
then was to try and see whether you could define
shapes using
graphics that a program
could look at the shape and see what a
five-axis milling machine
would have to do to make that shape out of a
piece of metal and so there's a lot of
that and of course the
shape that you want like when you make a flange
yes uh
that flange might not be strong enough
in its yeah
in its simple flangeness
yeah you might have to put a fillet
you know which is extra metal yeah to make it stronger
on the bend part so you can think of that
as something that would be revealed
in simulation so
sketchpad when you designed something in sketchpad
you didn't just you weren't just doing a drawing
you would get something that because you had all the
constraints and the simulation to see what yeah
so and and going back sorry to interrupt
you because we're running out of time and i have a bunch of
questions and i want i want to go to one at least one
questions from the people i don't want to be the only one asking
but um you know you mentioned small talk and
you know that amazing uh system
dan ingalls and adele goldberg
other people and you know working is
with small talk as you said it's like working in a living
system where you are changing it while the
system runs but also one of the main
features of small talk is the immediate feedback and
you you know brett victor he he gave a great talk about
immediate feedback and how important that is to design
stuff to work with staff so how do you see
immediate feedback in in software development how important
you think i think you know
put into my talk
session i just did another talk
okay okay no but you didn't talk about immediate feedback
in your talk yeah but i might have thrown in
uh four stages
yes yes uh the tinkering
engineering followers that's right and i was going
you forgot art why you didn't
put art in there also oh it all
is oh okay okay because what art
art the the greek
word uh art comes from the
latin ours and
the the greek root which goes back even earlier
is techni okay so technology
literally means anything that
humans make anything
okay so what what
happened is in the 19th century uh
painting and sculpture took the term
art oh it used to be called the fine
arts okay okay let's see i
see yeah that's like uh it's like
uh a.i used to mean something different than stuff today
that's right yeah yeah object oriented
used to mean something new today
so people people do this but in fact
in many of the presentations i do i show
these four guys sitting
the larger context around them
is art because it's everything everything
that's that's why artificial
means something special
yeah doesn't mean
something bad perfectly means
something that's made
okay is
intelligence that is made that is made yeah
so yeah so
uh so if you look at those four things
uh and the point i make is
in modern times you want to be
in the sweet spot at the center
ight yeah that combines diagrams
yeah so you want to choose when am i going to tinker
scientist tinker
engineers tinker mathematicians tinker so you have to
tinker that's right yeah you have to be you
have to make things principled it's not
just an engineering but uh like i have also
have a degree in pure math so if you're
going to make a mathematical proof it's at
least as engineered as a bridges
it has to have that integrity
connectiveness in order to be
considered a good proof yeah so
yeah and then science has this extra
important way of being a
between what's inside of our
heads and the kinds of phenomena that we
deal with out there so it's it's a meta
thing that's much more complex than the rest of these
ideas and much more powerful
so so if you try and apply that
map software into it it's usually
way off uh yeah yeah
bit and wearing
uh hardly any math no real
science so if you try
and map that into some modern system
that you might try to make
one of the number one things i think anybody would do
and certainly we did
what we could do back in the 70s
was to say yeah we have to do cad and sin
you have to be able to do computer-aided design
which means we have to be able to continue it's
graphics that we have to continually develop
the thing we have
in mind so we can at least fasten on the meaning
of it so the compute
the cad part is meaning it's semantics
and the
simulation part is because
beyond a few sentences
you shouldn't trust 20
or 30 or 100 requirements yeah
that's right without debugging that's right
that's that's something we do actually in software development
with testing you know there is a
test-driven development i don't know if you heard about it uh
yeah sure but that the problem with that
is that you know
if it were good let's let's
you're doing it well yeah and
in theory you should be able to run
uh you should be able to on a supercomputer you should be able
bring uh the thing to life right if
is covering everything uh the truth
at's right some parts of
it yes so the biggest problem with
want to have tests but the problem
is it loses the larger integrity
of what we need in designing a system
that's right yeah so i think
it's it's not that you don't want to have tests but i think
trying to start with tests is
and again
sometimes i throw in a lump of clay yeah
yeah you did can you i did okay so
it's pretty hard to debug a lump of clay into
a really nice piece of sculpture
yeah yeah and but you got to test
everything continuously right yeah you
have to have a vision of what it is that
you do yes but starting starting with the test
it's like thinking about the meanings first instead
of thinking about the no no it's it's thinking about
criteria the question is is
you know the way to think about the meanings
is to think about the simplest thing that is
like the thing that you want
that gets you no so starting off uh
uh asking
about bathroom facilities
is not going to lead you to a village design
no of course so what you need to think about
is what is the simplest thing that's like a village okay
okay let's see that gives you the system
okay that gives you many of the main things that the system
has to have and then that's not going to be
uh nearly
detailed enough or scaled
enough but it has its it's
a vision of the whole yeah
i think we don't have too much time
i'm sorry to interrupt you again i think we need like six hours
three ten days to talk about everything
uys are organizing you you
know too much alan you know too much it's
difficult it's difficult too
but let me at least ask you one question
from the audience um we have one from maximo
prieto he he admires you because
and he his question
is what can we as simple programmers
not the owners of the business do to
provoke a change in the way we are forced to program
today i think we deserve to program in a better
way yeah so well i think that's the big problem when i
was a professional programmer
you know it was somebody else's machine somebody
else's software somebody else's
problem so i was
you know at the bottom of this
of this machinery on on the other hand
what we did have
lot of this was in machine code
but the nice thing is uh the
machine code systems back then
many of them had really good macro systems
and so anybody
who wanted to survive back then and particularly
with regard to this question
the first thing we would do
a bunch of us who are involved in these projects
is to spend a fair amount of our time
each week often each day
working with each other on macros
that would give us higher level
blocks so basically programming language
dsl basically making
because otherwise you're at
the you're in the wrong place
for uh changing your mind so
about one of the ways of thinking about this thing is
uh and certainly was the way
people approached it and the arpa community really approached
it was let's
admit that human beings are terrible thinkers
that means we are terrible thinkers
what can we do about that well it means that
most of our ideas are going to be mediocre down to bad
let's just put that right
hat's right let's
as a you know that's the yeah let's
face it we still want to make progress so what
can we do well what we need to do is to be able to
fix things so we can change our
mind and what are those things we can do well
starting to happen back when i was a
uh when i was a programmer like one
of the machines i programmed on back then did
not have any index registers
really basic yeah
but you don't need an index register you
can go in and modify addresses that's right
what index registers are is late
binding something
yeah give you both safety and
a way of changing your mind more easily
every time you use a an indirect pointer
you are allowing
allowing
the possibility of sticking something in between
that's right to change that that the
other way would be static but in that way it's dynamic
it later on yeah idea
is virtually nothing that's important
should you know the actual address of
and one other thing and i've
this you know long ago a big
although it wasn't nearly as big as
it as it should have been became a really big
revelation later on
but the the file system
uh on the borough's beach
uh rose 220
in the air force so there were no operating systems
then and they wanted to exchange
tapes with files on them
and the way they hit on doing this
and i don't know who did it but
the idea was that the and these
piles were long because i won't go into the
weirdness of the tape drives back then but
so the front part of this was
bunch of a vec you know
an array yeah of pointers
further on down in the file
into the second part of the file which is a bunch of borrows
220 programs
machine codes yeah those are machine code programs
yeah and then the last part which could be
the size of the rest of the tape were all
the data records and the way
you way you uh read a tape is the tape
always got read into the same place in memory
and the only thing that was standardized was
what the index positions in this
first array actually meant
like so it was basically a
class with messages pointing to
methods basically that yeah yeah and i
real you know and it was great
we we called that data driven programming back then
yeah okay because what what
want to do is write your own code
to understand what you needed to do
was just understand you know if you want to find record
150 and of course there are different
sizes but it didn't matter because the code
there knew what size these guys were it knew
whether where the data is right
so nothing nothing was fixed but it was
dynamically decided by the
code yeah i got there in 1961 and
that was that was already in place
yeah wow yeah so that
was how you did things on the on the
borough's 220 for air
training command records
and but you know if you look at the principle
behind it yes it's like the principle of oop
that's right basically your abstracting and sketchpad
which was done about the same time had
the same idea sketchpad object
was
mostly a bunch of indirect points of the
thing called display and sketchpad
was just a pointer at a
specific position in this data
record for the thing and you just
jumped in direct through it and it would take you to the procedure
that was most well suited for displaying
that particular kind of thing there so
even though in the sketchpad those things
were more like prototypes than that classes is that
i don't know if you look if you read the thesis
yeah everybody should because no he
had uh even something like
inheritance oh really well
no no it was
sketch paper they were not prototypes like
that you cloned because i thought that they were like
cloned to have another one
not like no no okay okay
okay so but anyway once
you know i saw a sketch pad
a few years later in 66 in my first
in grad school along with simula and
it was having seen
this this idea like five or six times
a row because the borough's b5000
had a variant of it also and
in some ways even more sophisticated
and i was just dumb you know it just took me
four five six times to see the thing then finally
error is holy this is really an enormous
good idea it is actually
cosmically important so
let's make it scale now that's what you
did basically yeah so once
course once i saw it was
out to
yes
you know and again again it's
it's pragmatics that hurts
the idea like it's the simplest idea
that there is that if you have a computer
you can do any computation
you can represent any data structure
yeah so it should be a complete
instant
deduction that oh if i want to make
a computing system i should just make virtual computers
because that will allow me
to define anything else and i have
a universal way of doing it and people still don't use
what they call oop today to do that yeah
they just can't see it
here's something about a computer even today when they're
a lot smaller that with
where the pragmatic reality of the
computer you know contrasted
virtually or what it is semantically
yeah yeah so what's once you can
move from pregnant so one of the ways of looking
at is one of the biggest problems in programming in every
era and i don't even know what
decade this is for me i've encountered them
but it's going to be 60 60 years pretty soon
six years next year
six decades wow but in every year
it's the same thing with the same problem
get caught up with the pragmatics
yeah with the immediate with the immediate
instead of the yeah and the number one
optimization and pragmatics
hat on
and we can all do it once you put that
on it is almost impossible to design after
that's right completely incompatible
idea it's very difficult
to change it it's very difficult to say
to understand that you did something wrong it's very difficult to
see that you see that you did something wrong
so yeah so for me uh
you know there are a lot of different ways of using a dynamic system
and it depends on the personality for me
i like to do
when i was i
like to do this idea what's the smallest
village and i
just do that from scratch okay even
in small talk in small talk i wouldn't go in and define a lot
classes or any of that stuff i'd use the
the thing and called workspace which
had grass space yeah in it
and i would use a rebel with
i say like a rebel but with asteroids
because you know in a rebel you're like working
in one line but in a workspace you have the whole thing yeah yeah
you can have many many things in there and
it has its own uh address space
so what i would do is just do
a complete system the smallest thing
that's a village and everything i mean i would do the
loop i do the user interface i do every little thing the
could do trying to get
into my head what the
uh primary focus of the design
because the important thing about what
what oop is at least the oops stuff that we did
is that it's a module
system for us encapsulation
percent yeah yeah
yeah it's not there uh you know
occasionally you might have to fall back and define something like a data
structure but and when you
do that you're actually recording danger
basically it's a module system and the problem with
system is it doesn't tell you what modules
hould come up with right the module
system just gives you a way of protecting one set of things from
another
the whole front part of it is how to think
in terms of modules and what
to do in his his thesis program which
he wrote in fortran was a thing that attempted
to find you the
best set of modules out of a complex
set of constraints still a good idea yeah yeah
but basically and to me that's getting
the meaning of the thing down so to
me meetings dominate and then you have
this interesting thing in
most programming languages today
is there's nothing that because of this
fact that you can use in directions
that you can have a set of meanings
and they might include some tests
but if you think of the uh
yeah suppose it's just something like sorting yeah
and so
the you know the the meaning
for sorting is that the
output is a permutation of the input yeah
that obeys some some relationship
and prolog will even uh
sort for you just on that basis
does it really does it the hard way but
it it gives you the and of course
permutation is not easy thing to describe
it's a trickier kind of
thing but uh but there are 50
known ways to sort oh sort yeah
and they all have different uh
pragmatic ranges
and they have different conditions and so you can imagine
if you're going to do a sorting thing you have something that's
going to protect the meaning
so you can grind let it grind if you want
yeah yeah or it could be a really simple sorting
program that you're sure really does sort
yeah maybe or maybe we combined with tests
because both of these things but you keep that over on
the side and then on the on the right hand side of the page
you write down your 50 sorting routines
and you head them with the conditions
under
which they should be invoked so
they look this is just what we did when we were writing macros
force that's right basically
inputs oh this is an enormous
array so uh
i better not do a bubble sort here
or one of the side conditions
here is uh
this uh this
system has to be uh
easily updatable
so you might want to use a b tree
right you know you don't want to use a hard
array you might be better off going to a b tree
which gives you incremental updating
on the thing and still gives you pretty fast sorting
yeah yeah of course small talk has any number of
these yes different uh kinds of things
and then your module
is which is called sort
is the thing that
done the cad sim part
fab part
is all the all these
routines and the rules should be you should be able
to turn off any and all of the optimizations in any part
of the system and just have the system slow down
that's right but still working if and
that isn't true then you've done
a bad design period
that's simple yeah you're just playing at being an
engineer yeah in computing or you're just
flying at being a programmer even
yeah but going to to the last question
so what what would you tell to a programmer
today to you know
are working what can we
do you know a tiny people can we
do something or not i mean
because as you've mentioned many times complexity
currently in in our you know development software right now
is so complex uh you know working
doing web application is so much
difficult today that doing applications like
20 years ago yeah but so okay it's in
some cases you're just not
going to beat the system yeah
that's that's some cases just that because
the the what's imposed
on you is just too much however
like suppose you are doing web stuff yeah
uh so the
the first thing to notice is that
underneath javascript
is a dynamic
language subset of javascript
can be used as a real
target from uh
other language development yeah yeah
because uh you know there's a
good garbage collector yeah
yeah and quite a bit of it
lacks a couple of reflection
but i i advise people
in javascript to do a thing that
ago which was to
make a preprocessor for javascript
yeah there are
many there are many things like that today yeah it just parses
so you feed javascript to it
and it writes
things in a way that uh what you do
is reflective because it adds
that stuff in there that's right okay okay
so the basic idea is that for almost any
programming language uh
the chances that it's going to really fit what you need is
low and the whole point we do
should be open and with all the source
code available like small talk that helps
that helps a lot yeah i'm sorry sorry sorry
to interrupt you yeah but in
but you know small talk i don't advocate small talk today
because it was the world's greatest thing
really in the 70s but
uh you know what's
mall talk today is how well it compares
with more modern things
but that's because the more modern things are not very good
small talk is not
what i would use if i was going to do
a major project today i would